Ijteba Ulhasnain wrote:
Well the Iraqi aggression controlled by America and Brittan was an assault on Iran, not by Iran at a time when they were facing every kind of sanctions and no one was ready to help. So they might have bought arms from the black market from agents like Adnan Khashogi a close-knit of King Abdul Aziz. This is an out-and-out lie that aytullahs used to get funding from Israel and America, I was not expecting from a resourceful person like you. This is the brand of Islam to whom Saudis are funding . On contrast you will never hear any takfeeri (to decalre someone infidel) statements from shias , who are allegedly funded by Ayatullahs. Impartiality is a principle of justice holding that decisions should be based on objective criteria, rather than on the basis of bias, prejudice, or preferring the benefit to one person over another for improper reasons. (wiki) Your source of info is already biased and you still talk of impartiality, this is how some one can defend all types of massacre of Israel through http://www.aipac.org/ I can provide thousands of such links, so shall we accept that all this info is correct? hopefully you will understand the difference between "informed" and "aware" a register and a brain.
Shaikh Mohommad wrote:
Br Aamir Mughal has lot to say on topics and is interesting. We were talking about Saudi Arabia AND lo! Iran comes into discussion. Action speaks louder than speech. Saudi Arabian Government's attitude towards Muslims and non-Muslims indicate that it supports American and Israeli policies of killing innocent people. That is for sure.
Dont wait, please provide the link and then we will discuss the issue and in the meanwhile read about a Lobby who supported Afghan War, Saddam Hussein, Ayatullah Khomeini, Saudi Arabia and Taliban and they were the one who from 911 till now were the backbone of War on Terror and the funniest fact is that they were the supporters of General Zia, and they also supported General Musharraf and during all these years they were the real force behind Israel.
Dear Sheikh Sahab,
Why dont you write that it was the same Saudi Arabia and Saudi Muttawwas who also supported first Afghan Mujahideen [1979-1996] and then The Talibans [1996 - 2001]. If you want facts in Chronological Order then Facts are as under:
How would you explain this Saudi-Karzai talks with the Talibans and Iran's Role in Funding A Ferocious Jamat-e-Islami [Read Butcher] Gulbadin Hikmatyar. We are back to square one when USSR had left Afghanistan and these Afghan Mullah Mafia were at each others Throat from 1989 till 2001 i.e. 9/11 despites of the Fact that these Warlords had taken oath in Makkah for restoring peace but they didn't fulfill that promise and killed more Afghans than the Soviet Russia. Same game is afoot again only the actors are changed earlier Saudi Government tried to make peace between those US/CIA/Pakistan Backed Afghan Warlords [Jamat-e-Islami/Muslim Brotherhood Gang] who fought USSR [1979-1989], then the very same Saudi Government supported and accepted the US CIA/Pakistani backed Deobandi Anarchy i.e. Taliban and the same Saudi Goverment helped the US to destroy the very same Taliban after 9/11 because as per a book [Steve Coll's Ghost Wars] Mullah Omar allegedly misbehaved with Prince Turki Al Faisal [Saudi Intelligence Chief] before US attack on Afghanistan in 2001 because Prince had ordered Mullah Omar to withdraw Taliban support from Laden and Arab Gangs. Even if that was not enough Irani Government was financing a JI/Muslim Brotherhood Butcher of Kabul i.e. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. I wonder if Taliban are to be restored to War than what was the need of so-much bloodshed in the name of War on Terror and that too when a Minister in Taliban government [1996-2001] as per BBC Report [mentioned below number 6, 7 and 8], had warned US [before 9/11] in advance that there was a threat of Terrorist Attack in USA. If the Peace Talk with the Taliban was to be held then what was the need to exploit the Cock and Bull Story that Mullah Omar used to have dreams having indications from Mohammad [PBUH] as to how to Impose Shariah, what was the need to exploit the alleged shirt of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] which was allegedly shown [instead of Bread and Peace] to poor and innocent Afghans by Mullah Omar and this Deobandi Anarchy Taliban to get their sympathy vote above all why dont even take the Holy Name of Islami Shariah when one is indulged in every kind of unscrupulous acts. Read and lament.
1 - Karzai’s brother confirms presence at Saudi talks
October 10, 2008 Friday Shawwal 10, 1429
KANDAHAR, Oct 9: A brother of President Hamid Karzai said on Thursday his visit to Saudi Arabia last month was part of an Afghan push for the kingdom to convene peace talks with the Taliban.
Qayoum Karzai, the elder brother of the Afghan president, confirmed that no representatives of the militia were present at the meeting although the Afghan delegation had included former Taliban leaders.
“The Saudi king ... wants to help the people of Afghanistan in bringing peace so our trip was in that connection,” Qayoum Karzai told AFP.
“We briefed them about Afghanistan’s situation, we told them about what is going on here, about our misery and asked them to mediate as an impartial country,” he said.
This follows denials by the Afghan government and the Taliban of media reports that the meeting had amounted to peace talks. Former Taliban members have confirmed they were there but said there were no peace negotiations.
Qayoum Karzai said efforts started two-and-a-half years ago for talks to end the increasingly deadly Taliban insurgency, launched soon after the hardliners were ousted from government in a US-led invasion in late 2001.
There had been no direct talks with Taliban so far, said Karzai, who resigned as a member of parliament on Thursday citing illness. “We’re at the very early stages now but we do have hope for the future,” he said.
Asked who was involved, he said: “We are a number of people — whatever you want to call it: a group, some people or a delegation. We’re trying to bring peace.”
President Karzai has long called for talks with the Taliban willing to lay down arms and accept the new government.—AFP
2 - Taliban and Afghan officials break bread
A former high-level Taliban official said on Monday that he met last month in Saudi Arabia with representatives of the Taliban, the Afghan government and a powerful Afghan warlord.
But Abdul Salam Zaeef - the Taliban's former ambassador to Pakistan - said the meeting could not be construed as a peace negotiation.
Zaeef said he was invited by Saudi King Abdullah to share the Iftar meal with him one night. The meal is held each night during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan to break the daily fast.
"This is not new, it's a kind of a guest celebration," Zaeef told The Associated Press. "They invited some people for this. The list included me, (former Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad) Mutawakil, some from the Taliban, some from (warlord Gulbuddin) Hekmatyar, some from the government."
"We didn't discuss any issue of Afghanistan with" Abdullah, Zaeef said.
Zaeef, who spent almost four years in the US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, said there were no "official" representatives from the Taliban or Hekmatyar's group, meaning no one authorised to carry out peace talks.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai's government has long encouraged militants to lay down arms and accept the country's constitution, but the Taliban leadership has largely rebuffed repeated overtures from Afghan officials aimed at ending the country's six-year conflict.
US officials have not indicated they are ready for any contacts with high-level Taliban leaders, though US officials do encourage fighters to lay down arms and join the government's reconciliation program.
Last week, Karzai said he has repeatedly asked Saudi Arabia's king to facilitate peace talks with the Taliban. Karzai said Afghan officials have travelled to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to that end but there have not been any negotiations so far.
A spokesman for Karzai's office could not immediately be reached for comment Monday.
An Afghan opposition leader, former President Burhanuddin Rabbani, told The Associated Press earlier this year that Afghan political leaders have been meeting with Taliban and other anti-government groups in hopes of negotiating peace. Rabbani said some Taliban are willing to negotiate, but others are opposed.
One of the Afghan officials at the meal in Saudi Arabia was former the country's former Supreme Court Chief Justice Fazel Hadi Shinwari, Zaeef said. He said Bismillah Khan, the army chief of general staff, also was in Saudi Arabia, though it wasn't clear if he was part of the group that met with Abdullah.
Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi denied Monday that any peace talks have taken place, while a Taliban commander in southern Afghanistan said the issue was raised recently during a Taliban meeting.
"We have been hearing of such talks in Saudi Arabia from our different sources for some days. A representative of (Taliban leader) Mullah Omar also present at the meeting denied it categorically," Mullah Abdul Rahim said.
Rahim said the Taliban would continue the war until US and British forces left Afghanistan.
Saudi Arabia is a leader in the Sunni Muslim world and the location of Islam's two holiest shrines in Mecca and Medina. It was one of a handful of countries that recognised the strictly Islamic Taliban as rulers of Afghanistan in the 1990s.
Even after the Taliban's ouster by a US-led invasion in 2001, Saudi Arabia kept its doors open for Taliban members to make the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina.
While al-Qaeda leader Osama bin-Laden, a Saudi, has frequently railed against the US-allied kingdom, his sympathisers among the Afghan Taliban have been muted in their criticism.
3 - S. Arabia brokering Kabul-Taliban talks: ‘Militia severs ties with Al Qaeda’
October 07, 2008 Tuesday Shawwal 7, 1429
LONDON, Oct 6: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia recently hosted talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban, CNN’s Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson reported on Monday quoting a source.
The CNN online alert said the historic four-day meeting took place during the last week of September in Makkah, according to the source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the negotiations.
King Abdullah broke the fast with a 17-member Afghan delegation — an act intended to show his commitment to ending the conflict.Taliban leader Mullah Omar was not present, the source said.
It marks a significant departure by the Saudi leadership to take a direct role in Afghanistan, hosting some delegates who have until recently been their enemies.
In the past, Saudi Arabia has generally dealt with Afghanistan through Pakistan.
The CNN correspondent said the desert kingdom’s current foray marks a significant shift and appears to recognise the political weakness of Pakistan and the need to stem the growth of Al Qaeda.
The current round of talks is anticipated to be a first step in a long process. According to the source close to the talks, it has taken two years of behind-the-scenes meetings to get to this point.
The talks took place between Sept 24 and 27 and involved 11 Taliban delegates, two Afghan government officials, a representative of former mujahideen commander and US foe Gulbadin Hekmatyar, and three others.
It was the first such meeting aimed at finding a negotiated settlement to the Afghan conflict and for the first time, all parties were able to discuss their positions and objectives openly and transparently, the source said.
Saudi Arabia was one of only three countries that recognised the Taliban leadership during its rule over Afghanistan in the 1990s, but that relationship was severed over Mullah Omar’s refusal to hand over Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
While Mullah Omar was not present at the Makkah talks, the source said the Taliban leader had made it clear he was no longer allied with Al Qaeda — a position that has never been publicly stated but emerged at the talks. It confirms what another source with an intimate knowledge of the Taliban and Mullah Omar has told CNN in the past.
During the talks, all parties agreed that the only solution to Afghanistan’s conflict is through dialogue, not fighting. The source described the talks as an ice-breaking meeting where expectations were kept necessarily low. Further talks are expected in Saudi Arabia involving this core group and others.
The reasons for Saudi Arabia’s involvement are numerous, including having the trust of the United States and Europe to play a positive role, at a time when the conflict appears to be worsening and the coalition’s casualty toll is climbing. Also, Saudi Arabia may fear that Iran could take advantage of US failings in Afghanistan, as it is seen to be doing in Iraq.Several Afghan sources familiar with Iranian activities in Afghanistan have said that Iranian officials and diplomats who were investing in business and building education facilities are lobbying politicians in Kabul.
Coalition commanders regularly accuse Iran of arming the Taliban, and Western diplomats privately suggest that Iran is working against US interests in Afghanistan, making it harder to bring peace.
Saudi sources say perceived Iranian expansionism is one of Saudi Arabia’s biggest concerns.
AP adds from Kabul: The Taliban’s former ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef, said on Monday that he met last month in Saudi Arabia representatives of the Taliban, the Afghan government and Mr Hekmatyar but the meeting could not be construed as peace negotiation.
He said he was invited by King Abdullah to Iftar.
“This is not new, it’s a kind of a guest celebration,” Mr Zaeef told AP.
“They invited some people for this. The list included me, (former Taliban foreign minister Wakil Ahmad) Mutawakil, some from the Taliban, some from Hekmatyar, some from the government.”
“We didn’t discuss any issue of Afghanistan with” King Abdullah, he said.
Mr Zaeef, who spent almost four years in the US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, said there were no “official” representatives from the Taliban or Hekmatyar’s group, meaning no one authorised to carry out peace talks.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government has long encouraged militants to lay down arms and accept the country’s constitution, but the Taliban leadership has largely rebuffed repeated overtures from Afghan officials aimed at ending the country’s six-year conflict.
An Afghan opposition leader, former president Burhanuddin Rabbani, had told the AP earlier this year that the country’s political leaders had been meeting Taliban and other anti-government groups in hopes of negotiating peace. He said some Taliban were willing to negotiate, but others were opposed.
One of the Afghan officials at the meal in Saudi Arabia was the country’s former Supreme Court chief justice Fazel Hadi Shinwari, Mr Zaeef said. He said Bismillah Khan, the army chief of general staff, also was in Saudi Arabia, though it wasn’t clear if he was part of the group that met the king.
Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi denied on Monday that any peace talks had taken place, while a Taliban commander in southern Afghanistan said the issue was raised recently during a Taliban meeting.
“We have been hearing of such talks in Saudi Arabia from our different sources for some days. A representative of Mullah Omar also present at the meeting denied it categorically,” Mullah Abdul Rahim said.
He said the Taliban would continue the war until US and British forces left Afghanistan.
4 - US supports Taliban return to power By Anwar Iqbal
October 07, 2008 Tuesday Shawwal 7, 1429
WASHINGTON, Oct 6: The United States said on Monday it’s “very supportive” of an Afghan reconciliation effort that could bring the Taliban back into the government in Kabul after severing their ties with Al Qaeda.
A CNN report claimed that the Taliban had already agreed to dump Al Qaeda, a militant group the United States blames for sponsoring the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.
“We’re very supportive of an Afghan reconciliation programme,” US State Department’s deputy spokesman Robert Wood told a briefing in Washington.
The State Department official also made it clear that the US had only two preconditions: renunciation of violence and adherence to the Afghan Constitution.
“And, in fact, the Afghan government has outlined criteria for that programme, which we fully support, one of which is renouncing violence, the second, adherence to the constitution,” he said.
Mr Wood emphasised that the talks would not affect “a long-term US goal” to try to build up the Afghan army. “It’s important that Afghans be able to take on security responsibility for themselves,” he said.
US military commanders have acknowledged that there’s no military solution to the Afghan conflict.
In a recent testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen restated his concern that the military effort alone could not bring peace to Afghanistan. “Afghanistan doesn’t just need more boots on the ground. … I’m not convinced we’re winning it in Afghanistan,” he said.
Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith, commander of Britain’s 16 Air Assault Brigade, which had just completed its second tour in Afghanistan, told the Sunday Times this weekend that people should “lower their expectations” about how the conflict would end.
He also said they should prepare for a possible deal with the Taliban.
Diplomatic sources here claimed that while the Afghan government had long advocated talks with the Taliban, a mounting death toll among coalition troops and a worsening violence inside Afghanistan forced the Americans to involve Saudi Arabia in the talks.
The Taliban agreed to participate because they also believed that they could not win a war against the US-led coalition, sources said.
5 - Hekmatyar protected by Iran, says Spanish radio
October 07, 2008 Tuesday Shawwal 7, 1429
MADRID, Oct 6: A confidential military report made public on Monday charges Iran offered protection to an Afghan leader who claimed responsibility for an August ambush that killed 10 French soldiers.
The report by Spain’s CIFAS military intelligence agency, which was obtained by Cadena Ser radio and posted on the station’s website, said Gulbuddin Hekmatyar enjoyed “total freedom” when he lived at a Tehran hotel in 2005 — with his security provided by the Iranian government.
He met daily with many unidentified individuals while in Tehran, added the report which was dated August 9, 2005.
Former Afghan prime minister Hekmatyar is considered one of the country’s most radical resistance leaders who is already known to have sought refuge in Iran between 1996 and 2002.
Cadena Ser did not say how it obtained the report, which apparently was marked confidential and bore the seal of Spain’s defence ministry.
The radio station also said the intelligence agency suspects Tehran supplied an allied terrorist group with US-made Stinger missile launchers.
Another report claims Iranian agents in April 2005 bought “several Stinger missile systems” from an Afghan arms dealer, Cadena Ser said. “Iran buys weapons to then transfer them to a third party, probably Iranian terrorist groups,” it said.—AFP
6 - Taleban 'warned US of huge attack' by By Kate Clark
Former BBC correspondent in Kabul Saturday, 7 September, 2002, 09:48 GMT 10:48 UK
An aide to the former Taleban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, has revealed that he was sent to warn American diplomats and the United Nations that Osama bin Laden was due to launch a huge attack on American soil.
Neither organisation heeded the warning, which was given just weeks before the 11 September attacks.
The aide said he had urged the Americans to launch a military campaign against al-Qaeda but was told that this was politically impossible.
Bin Laden: The Taleban's chief "guest"
Mr Muttawakil, who was known to be deeply unhappy with the Arab and other foreign militants in Afghanistan, learned of Osama bin Laden's plan in July.
The attack was imminent, he discovered, and it would be huge. Bin Laden hoped to kill thousands of US citizens.
The information had come not from other members of the Taleban but from the leader of the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, Tohir Yuldash, who had found refuge in Afghanistan and had good links with al-Qaeda.
The minister was deeply worried that the US military would react with deadly vengeance against Afghanistan.
The guests [al-Qaeda] were going to destroy the guesthouse [Afghanistan]
As he put it, al-Qaeda, the Taleban's guests, were going to destroy the guest house.
One of his former aides told me how he had been sent to issue warnings.
He went first to the American consulate in Peshawar in Pakistan, then to the United Nations. But neither warning was heeded.
One US official explained why:
"We were hearing a lot of that kind of stuff," he said.
"When people keep saying the sky's going to fall in, and it doesn't, a kind of 'warning fatigue' sets in."
Another diplomatic source said he had thought the meeting was an attempt to rattle the US to please funders in the Gulf, a bid to raise money from al-Qaeda's donors.
Only Taleban alert
And the fact that the aide had been told not to mention Mr Muttawakil's name also led to a downgrading of the information.
At the time, late July last year, 19 members of al-Qaeda were already in place in America, waiting to launch their deadly attacks.
It is already known that American domestic intelligence failed to heed information, but this is the only known alert that came from inside the Taleban movement.
The former foreign minister himself is now unavailable for comment - he handed himself in to the Afghan authorities in February.
He remains in US custody in Kandahar, one of the few senior Taleban whom America has managed to arrest.
7 - Taleban minister's 'peace role' mystery Wednesday, 17 October, 2001, 17:15 GMT 18:15 UK
Afghans continue to flee the air strikes
Conflicting reports are emerging from Pakistan as to whether the Taleban foreign minister is attempting to negotiate an end to the US strikes on Afghanistan.
Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil is widely described as a moderate within the Taleban leadership.
The last few days have seen an extraordinary burst of rumour and counter rumour about Mr Muttawakil's activities, most of it emanating from diplomatic sources in Pakistan.
Much of it claims that Mr Muttawakil has been in Pakistan to make offers that would include the handing over of Osama bin Laden for trial.
Nothing has been heard from the foreign minister himself for some time.
The reports began in earnest on Monday, when a news agency in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) said Mr Muttawakil had arrived there - and defected from the Taleban.
Muttawakil - the mysteries continue
Such a defection, analysts argue, would be precisely the kind of propaganda coup the United States has been looking for in its war against terrorism.
US and British politicians, as well as the opposition Northern Alliance within Afghanistan, have repeatedly said that there are signs of splits within the Taleban. However, they have failed to produce evidence in support of these claims.
Within minutes the UAE authorities denied Mr Muttawakil was on their territory.
And the Taleban embassy in Islamabad almost simultaneously dismissed the report, saying their foreign minister was inside Afghanistan.
However, it is widely reported in the Pakistani and foreign press that Mr Muttawakil did visit Islamabad shortly before the arrival there on Monday of US Secretary of State Colin Powell.
Pakistan's Frontier Post newspaper says he held 90 minutes of talks with the head of Pakistan's powerful intelligence service, Lieutenant General Ehsanul Haq.
Sources close to the Taleban foreign minister say he urged General Haq to persuade the United States to suspend its air attacks on Afghanistan.
That, the paper reports, would have allowed moderates in the Taleban to press its hardline leader, Mullah Omar, to reconsider his policies.
According to the Frontier Post, many moderate Taleban leaders are aghast at the results of Mullah Omar's policies, but it does not spell out which policies in particular.
Nevertheless, before Mr Powell's arrival in Islamabad, the Taleban moderated their conditions for the handing over of Bin Laden.
While still insisting the US must provide hard evidence of his involvement in the 11 September attacks on New York and the Pentagon, the Taleban dropped their insistence that he be tried in an Islamic country.
The Guardian newspaper in London goes one step further. It says Mr Muttawakil even dropped the demand for hard evidence in meetings which included staff of the US intelligence service, the CIA.
If Mr Muttawakil ever did hold such meetings, there are no signs yet of the US accepting his appeal for a break in the bombing.
If anything, the air strikes have become heavier in recent days.
Hard information about Mr Muttawakil's whereabouts continues to be noticeable by its absence.
On Wednesday morning, Reuters news agency quoted an official with the exiled Afghan king - a possible focal point for any post-Taleban settlement - as saying Mr Muttawakil had left Afghanistan and made contact with the king's advisers.
A short while later, the Associated Press news agency quoted exactly the same official saying the Reuters report was "absolutely wrong".
8 - Taleban 'turn on ex-minister' Last Updated: Tuesday, 21 October, 2003, 17:39 GMT 18:39 UK
The hardline Islamic Taleban movement is reported to have disowned its former foreign minister in Afghanistan, Wakil Ahmad Mutawakil.
Mutawakil - his aides say he was invited to join the Karzai government
The current government of President Hamid Karzai says it is considering whether to hold talks with Mr Mutawakil, the most senior Taleban to have been held in US custody.
There continue to be conflicting reports on Mr Mutawakil's whereabouts and whether he has been set free by the US.
Recently President Karzai repeated an offer of an amnesty for all Taleban members deemed not to have innocent blood on their hands.
'No accurate information'
A spokesman for Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar told the BBC Pashto service on Tuesday that Mr Mutawakil "does not represent our will".
He said the Taleban's struggle would continue.
Mr Mutawakil has been traditionally seen as a moderate member of the Taleban which has been increasingly active in south-east Afghanistan in recent months.
Taleban head Mullah Omar reportedly fell out with Mr Mutawakil
He surrendered to US forces some months after the US-led operation to oust the Taleban began in October, 2001.
Recent days have seen a wave of reports and denials about Mr Mutawakil's status.
On Tuesday a spokesman for President Karzai, Jawid Ludin, seemed unsure himself as to Mr Mutawakil's whereabouts.
"I have no accurate information," he told the BBC Persian service.
On Monday Mr Ludin appeared to confirm earlier reports saying that Mr Mutawakil had been released from detention at the US airbase at Bagram, near Kabul.
But he has now told the BBC that: "So far as we understand he is still under arrest and not yet released."
"I don't know if he is in Kandahar or Bagram," Mr Ludin said.
However other reports say he is under US protection at the Kandahar airbase, fearing attack from his former Taleban comrades.
The BBC's Rahimullah Yusufzai says Mr Mutawakil's aides have all along claimed that the US military authorities made two offers to Mr Mutawakil while he was in their custody at the Bagram airbase.
They say he was invited to join the Karzai government as a spokesman and adviser to the Afghan president or to seek political asylum in a Western country.
Though the US government has refrained from commenting on the issue, Mr Mutawakil's colleagues say the offers are still valid.
They believe Mr Mutawakil would like to stay away from Afghan politics for the time-being and would prefer asylum in an Arab country.