Public flogging of a woman in SWAT - is this the Islamic way of handing out justice?

Public flogging of a woman in SWAT - is this the Islamic way of handing out justice? Posted by Teeth MaestroApril 3, 2009

http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2009/04/03/women-being-publicly-flogged-swat

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Comments

Comment by Unaiza Fatima on April 3, 2009 @ 4:47 pm

No worries Teeth! We have our legendary hero Iftikhar Chaudhury as Chief Justice of Pakistan. He will not let them get away with that.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

The honourable brave warriors of Islam are showing their true colours again.

They fight like ‘geedars’ when it comes to our armed forces; but with unarmed women, they will be brave and will flog them in public.

Death is too kind a punishment for these inbred, barbaric cunts.

Comment by Abdulrahman Rafiq on April 3, 2009 @ 5:01 pm

Fatima what can Justice Chaudhury do any longer? The Writ of Pakistan isn’t recognized by this barbaric group. I’m afraid to say, I see no other option other than Military ones.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 3, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

The problem is not about them (so called Taliban)doing this. The problem is about our govt letting this happen.

Comment by Hassan Abbas on April 3, 2009 @ 5:18 pm

This is ridiculous and who the heck said they are Muslims?? ask them I bet they don’t know who was Hazrat Muhammad PBUH…yes they dont coz they don’t know wht r Hadiths and why a Muslim have to not only believe on them but also act on them…they forced their so called shariyat and Hazrat Muhammad PBUH never ever forced anything to anyone….Hazart Muhammad fought about 80+ wars in his life and he did not forced any of his prisoner for converting into Islam…..these ppl are just a brainless (probably) Israeli agents whose main task is to destroy Islam’s image in the world..

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 3, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

Ditto Hassan. I agree. Such people are bringing shame to Islam.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

I think the restoration of Iftikhar Chaudhry was a fantastic achievement by the civil society of Pakistan; but I find it shameful that no lawyer has marched against Sufi Muhammad and Maulana (Faz)lullah’s expulsion of lawyers and magistrates from Swat.

It doesn’t matter what interpretation of what religion is used, religion should not pollute the business of the state.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 3, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

Hassan

I know a guy whose father is one of top officers in Pak railways. They are from Waziristan. And he was telling me these guys who (call themselves Taliban) started living there a few years ago. They got places to live on hire paying $500 or more which was quite big amount these days. Then they started militant activities which were opposed by local people but by the time, these people were already in power. Now if army is killing them, whats wrong about it?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 6:02 pm

well well well! this incidence will provide a perfect opportunity to shed the crocodile tears.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

So do you condemn the public flogging of this girl, Dr Jawwad? Or not? Obviously your concern for the people of Swat is genuine, isn’t it? What a laugh.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

its not islamic. it should have done behind the closed doors and through lady volunteers.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 6:16 pm

Oh, so she still SHOULD HAVE BEEN FLOGGED?! Oh right, be barbarian, but do it in pardah! I really shouldn’t be surprised you support such medieval practices. Would you allow your sister, mother or daughter to be flogged if she went out to buy bread or pay the electricity bill?

And then you tell us about crocodile tears.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 3, 2009 @ 6:20 pm

its not islamic. it should have done behind the closed doors and through lady volunteers. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

If you talk of Islami Shariah Code then please go and read about Islamic Punishment because Islamic Punishment are administered openly [Durrul Al Behy by Shawkani, Baloogh Al Maram by Hajar Asqalani - both are in Arabic and availabale in English and Urdu as well]. These Hypocrite Mullahs run for cover when under fire. Just imagine after the breaking news on GEO TV when a spokesman of Rampantly Deviant Sufi Muhammad was approached, he while explaining it to the GEO TV [Lady news reader] that conducting and administring publicly is wrong and Un-Islami [please define the public beheading in Saudi Arabia]. These Mullahs particularly the Deobandi Anarchists have no shame whatsoever when it comes to exploiting the Holy Name of Islam.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

Good point, what’s the fun in being a barbaric medieval animal if you have to whip an innocent girl in private?

Besides, Sufi Muhammad is just the mouthpiece, everyone knows Maulana (Faz)Lullah calls the shot in Swat. And his spokesman Muslim Khan has said “Why not! She [the girl who was flogged] went out in the open without a male companion”.

It’s unbelievable that in the 21st century, such medieval practices still take place.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

@danial niether of my family member is secular.they are all religious people.it means that there is no chance of flogging what so ever.

@amir mughal yes it should be in public but in order to maintain the dignity of women it is better to execute the punishment behind the close door. punishment of a women is against the modesty and prudency. in quran the punishment of fornicator is 100 lashes on skin. (sura nur - 2) so if you do this in the public you will violate the islamic code of conduct. in saudia women are not punished publicly. ulema e deo band did a great job for islam.please do not redicule them on the basis of wrong doing of few illiterate fanatics. i wonder ehat hajar asqalini wrote about the punishment of a women in public? would you please tell us about that?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 6:59 pm

@danial burki! it is all about perception of the act. you see this act as a fulfilling of body needs like eating, sleeping etc… islam see’s this act more disgusting, obnoxious and more criminally intensified than the murder. Therefore a murderer can escape the execution if the relatives forgive him but an adulterer can not.

Comment by Unaiza Fatima on April 3, 2009 @ 7:25 pm

It is good to hear that the Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhury has established a supreme court bench for its scrutiny. I appreciate that and hope an exemplary outcome for the future.

Comment by Bhijan on April 3, 2009 @ 7:37 pm

You mean they didn’t kill her for Honor

Did something change here. I thought they kill the woman in the name of honor

I can tell these people are idiots. Look at the people who burried Five (not one) women alive are still honorable and sitting in the parliament

Comment by farrah k raja on April 3, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

If we look at the history of Christianity and Europe it is these sort of extreme waves of religion which made whole of Europe ,Secular.
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I saw this many weeks ago but still I have no reaction.No anger ,no pain,no hurt and no humiliation. This is simply not me,neither my country ,nor my people,neither my culture,nor my religion. These people cannot be allowed to treat us like animals in the name of religion.
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We cannot loose Pakistan to these outcasts of Saudi Arabia,Egypt,Somalia and Yemen.

Comment by AAK on April 3, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

FOr DR Jawwad Khan,

Yes an adulterer deserves to be punished according to the shariah but why do muslim men over look the part that says that when u see it happen the first time look away, if u see it happen again warn them, if u see it happen the 3rd time tell the husband and yet if it still doesnt stop THEN punish her… here, unfortunately without proof of adulteration our MUSLIM men jump to conclusions and for the sole reason of EGO, accuse their women of unlawful acts and force the shariah’s LAST RESORT punishments upon them… If following Islamic law is what our society needs to do then it needs to learn to follow all the steps and not take chauvinistic shortcuts.

How come our MEN, who have been proven to have had promiscuous relationship (premarital/ extramarital), examples of which have had seats in our government were only fired but not flogged or stoned or any such thing.. Does the Shariah only apply for the women in our country.

We are not going to buried in the same grave and held responsible for others mistakes.. who r we to judge others, if he/she had erred, God Himself knows how, when and where to punish. We need to stop finding ways to punish others and instead use that energy to improve ourselves and hence improve the wretched state our country is in.

Comment by WASIM ARIF / OTHER PAKISTAN on April 3, 2009 @ 8:48 pm

Friends including Dr Jawwad,

This is not sharia rule, it is satanic rule. I challenge one and all to prove otherwise, supporters of the savages in Swat are invited to take me up on the challenge by visiting the links below and commenting:

http://blog.otherpakistan.org/

http://blog.otherpakistan.org/2009/04/03/swat-under-satanic-rule/

Feimanallah Swat & Taliban Murdabad

Wasim

Comment by noman on April 3, 2009 @ 8:57 pm

dactar jawaad

i tried my level best to find one gud point about your personality but u keep on reinforcing my gut instinct that you are nothing but a shameless illeterate jahil of the highest order. you use the words lolomycin and a number of other abusive words.you indulge in tohmat by calling people non muslims and accusing their families of being prostitutes.your posts on ghazi criminal blog are full of disgusting crap.you try to use the name os sharia and islam to cover crimes of these misbegotten psychoes by calling them islamic and sharaee. people like you are infact an insult for muslims.you defend your abusive language .and you are also defending the flogging of an innocent girl whose only crime is being hostage to taliban mullahas in swat.all such people who are supporting the indian/israelis sponsored insurgency in swat/fata should be shot. dactar jawad please explain why ur beloved jamia hifza brigade roamed around on the streets of isb without mehrams?

i know your typical abusive mentality.you are welcome to your abuses.as somebody said on zardari blog “your post are just full of crap”…how true

Comment by Amina on April 3, 2009 @ 9:09 pm

@ dr.jawwadkhan

I was simply shocked, aghast, whatever you call it after seeing the video, but your remarks sir are utterly utterly barbaric! They make the Taliban spokesperson Muslim Khan’s arguments look tame in comparison! Why the need for all this hypocrisy? Why don’t you come out in the open and declare once and for all that yes, you infact support the barbaric creatures known to mankind as ‘Taliban’?

I so disgusted by the behavior of Taliban and their supporters that I don’t know what’s worse: the American forces or the Taliban! I hope they finish each other off! Oh, and before you declare other people as ‘kaafirs’ because they don’t adhere to ‘your’ version of Islam, please do Islam and all Muslims a favor and read something about such stuff!

Comment by Ali on April 3, 2009 @ 9:11 pm

Dr Jawwad,

Lol, dude every body is rough on you. You are swimming against the stream.

I will give you reasons why you are wrong.

1- First of all, the ‘victim’ is a woman.
2- The people punishing her are ‘Taliban’.

Aren’t these enough.

If these two things don’t make you change, then there is no use for the 3rd or 4th reason.

You are just like a moron, who would insist to know all the details of the case. Aren’t these enough reasons?

Comment by blog on April 3, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

why all the hype? If the girl actually did commit the crime then she got the punishment in accordance with Sharia law This is not barbaric or whatever this is what Quran says, we might not like it but being Muslim have to accept it

Qur’an is noted in Surah 24 (An-Núr), Verse 2: “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”

If she is innocent then obviously that is wrong

Comment by blog on April 3, 2009 @ 9:23 pm

@dr J “its not islamic. it should have done behind the closed doors and through lady volunteers.”

I am no expert but the Verse that I quoted above clearly says that this should be done in open for both man and woman

Comment by Khaled on April 3, 2009 @ 9:37 pm

First i strongly condemn this barbaric act in the name of Islam, the people who are justifying this act as Islamic don’t even know about Islam, There should be 4 witnesses for this.

Awab and people working in P.T.I should leave this party as Imran khan is working with talibans and have deep links with the people like Hameed Gul who are actualy giving support to those Talibans. Moreover PTI members are working with talibans as well and So called Liberals like Awab are still working in PTI.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 9:44 pm

@ladies and gentlemen!

i am just trying to defend the ALLAH(SWT) divine order that’s all. do not ask me, ask yourselves the very question. are you ready to follow the the order of ALLAH(SWT) or not? do you think that fornication is as light as a non physical flirtation? finally do you think that islamic penal code is barbaric? ask yourselves not me. i have no sympathy for a male fornicator at all.

@blog! what i said that islamic code of conduct should not be violated.only ladies can be spectators of this punishment. for the real punishment you have to reveal her skin. tell me is it appropriate in the presence of men?

@noman where is your favourite “Quran and sunnah” chant gone? munafiq spare no time ridiculing the laws of sharia indirectly.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 9:50 pm

@Ali thank you very mush for your “enlightened” guidance

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 10:18 pm

@blog: Thank you for pointing out that it’s not just the Taliban that are senseless animals, but their religion actually requires such punishment.

And I’m glad that the ‘This is not Islam’ crowd actually cringes at the punishments actually prescribed by Islam. Maybe there is hope after all.

And no, Dr Jawwad, it is for this incident and numerous others like it that I absolutely reject the order of your Allah.

Comment by WASIM ARIF / OTHER PAKISTAN on April 3, 2009 @ 10:26 pm

@ Danial

I echo your sentiments for Dr Jawwad.

Feimanallah Swat

Wasim

Comment by Khaled on April 3, 2009 @ 10:26 pm

@ Jawwad

I guess this is not Pakistan this is a jungle where any one can make a Shariah Court and start imposing shariah and punishments.

Get a life !!

No body is contradicting the laws of Allah nor anyone can, there should be 4 witnesses who actually see from their own eyes the actual procedure of SEX.

Now from the events and from the details it is not clear that the girls actually did the crime nor Talibans are accepting they have 4 people who actually saw the girl doing SEX with anyone, infact one of the story is she got out from the house with here Father in law so the justice has been done with her, i ask you Father In Law is Mehram or not ??

Only Jamatis are actually supporting all this so thanks for telling all of us your political and theoretical affiliation.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 3, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

Ditto Khaled

You are a very sensible guy. There is a thing called Ijama as well. Hope these barbarians don’t know about it. This act can never be justified and whats the dignity about such a bunch of losers who talk about the dignity of a woman and treat her her this way in front of strangers which are of opposite sex. What about the guys who were holding her? What about the guy who was lashing her. Is this the dignity and Islam these pathans talk about?

Comment by Adnan Siddiqi on April 3, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

Another lame attempt by anti Shariah guys to screw up deal in SWAT

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 3, 2009 @ 10:37 pm

Adnan

We are not Anti Sharia. Does Sharia says to do so in front of so many strangers. Tell me a single point of sanity here. Is it really Islam. I am talking about the facts, not the lame excuses to prove the rightfulness of this stupid incident. Any anti state activity is wrong. This simply is against humanity.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 10:42 pm

@khaled!
if the same punishment would have been carried out after the testimony of 4 witness, would you then appericiate practicing islamic jurisprudence?

@wasim arif/ other pakistan
“This is not Islam’ crowd actually cringes at the punishments actually prescribed by Islam”
“Dr Jawwad, it is for this incident and numerous others like it that I absolutely reject the order of your Allah”

do you really mean echoing danial’s comment? did you actually read his comments? do you really know the views of @danial about ALLAH(swt), NABI E KAREEM(saww) and ISLAM?

please do not let this wave of anger against so called crime against women, flush your faith.

Comment by Amina on April 3, 2009 @ 10:44 pm

well as far as Sharia law and its interpretation is concerned, I think I have read that you require at least four witnesses to prove that they actually saw the act of fornication. And since there were no four witnesses, then we may safely assume that the Taliban have come up with a Sharia of their own.

But such matters aside, since in Pakistan we don’t follow Sharia in the rest of the country why is Swat made a scapegoat? Sharia was a set of laws prescribed for a society nearly 1400 years ago, it’s not relevant today. That’s where ‘ijtehad’ comes into play. It was for this very reason that ‘ijtehad’ was prescribed so that such matters could be dealt with.

So please stop making it sound as if the God of Quran is a pervert who is only concerned with the so-called loose behavior in women and is not concerned with the much greater problems threatening people everywhere! Thanks.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 3, 2009 @ 10:50 pm

its not islamic. it should have done behind the closed doors and through lady volunteers. i wonder ehat hajar asqalini wrote about the punishment of a women in public? would you please tell us about that?@amir mughal: yes it should be in public but in order to maintain the dignity of women it is better to execute the punishment behind the close door. [Dr Jawwad]
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Dear Dr Sahab,

Firstly, if you talk of Islam then keep in mind that administring punishment is the authority of Ruler i.e. State [no matter how bad or corrupt he may be, he is to be followed and no Khrooj [Rebellion] is allowed - any such Khurooj [Rebellion] against Ruler would be dealt like Karbala [Ahkamul Quran - Qazi Abu Bakar Ibn Arabi Al Maliki - dont get confused because he is not Sufi Ibn Arabi]

One should have preferred [when he/she doesn't have the knowledge of Shariah] silence instead of declaring that punishing openly is Anti-Islamic [Spokesman of Mullah Sufi Mohammad while talking to GEO TV also declared that it was Unislamic to punish somebody openly - and what a fool and ignorant both of them are]

Your main point is that this punishment should have been behind the closed door, and this position is also taken by Kamran Khan of GEO TV today.

Please get Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and go through the narrations of a Hudd Sentence [on committing adultery] passed by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] against two of his Companions [May Allah be pleased with both of them]. One was Ma’aiz Aslami [May Allah be pleased with him] and other was a Lady Companion Ghamdiya [May Allah be pleased with her] were stonned to death publicly.

Had I been an exploiter of Islam like these Mullahs are then I wouldn’t have taken refuge by avoiding questions I would have rather owned the act without any fear and would’ve been a committed Mullah [Thanks Allah - I am an ordinary, mortal, sinner Muslim]
=================
ulema e deo band did a great job for islam.please do not redicule them on the basis of wrong doing of few illiterate fanatics. [Dr Jawwad Khan]

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Dear Dr Sahab,

Let me give you a glimpse of Deobandi-Barelvi-Wahabi and Shia Mullahs:

ENJOY:

Eternal Darkness of the Unimaginative MULLAH Mind

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/eternal-darkness-of-unimaginative.html

Comment by Danial Burki on April 3, 2009 @ 10:56 pm

Amazing! Dr Jawwad terms the merciless and barbaric flogging of a 17-year-old girl WITHOUT TRIAL and without any proof that she committed a crime even under Islamic law as a “SO CALLED” crime against women.

Those who think these are ’so called’ crimes are ’so called’ douchebags.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 11:00 pm

“Sharia was a set of laws prescribed for a society nearly 1400 years ago, it’s not relevant today”

thanks for clearing your position. islamic laws are made by Allah(swt)like all other things which are created by ALLAH(swt) for example earth,moon, sun,air,water etc etc etc. if his creation is not became out dated even after millions of years then how His laws can be out dated in just 1400 years?

@amina!
you suppose to be a muslim. how can you say such things? how long one can live on earth? after that? dust? end of the story? is it that simple? do you believe that humans are just the end result of the ridiculous evaluation? if you are really a muslim then please think about these issues.

pukhta afkar kahan dhoondnay jaey koee
is zamany ki hawa rakhtee hey har cheez ko kham
madrasa(school)aqal ko aazad to karta hey magar
chorh jata hey khayalat ko be rabt o nizam
murda la deeni afkar se afrang men ishq
aqal e be rabti e afkar se mashriq men ghulam

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 11:49 pm

@amir mughal! please always read the post before boasting yourself as all knower.i have already read the sahee bukharee thrice along with all saahe sitta.first time i read the sahee bukharee when i was 13 years old just for curosity. read again what i wrote.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 3, 2009 @ 11:59 pm

please always read the post before boasting yourself as all knower.i have already read the sahee bukharee thrice along with all saahe sitta.first time i read the sahee bukharee when i was 13 years old just for curosity. read again what i wrote. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Dr Sahab,

I never said that I know all. [Only Allah has that right and knowledge]

I am not saying that you haven’t read Sihah-e-Sitta but read it again [Maaz Aslami and Ghamdiya incident] and see for yourself as to what you have written in your very first post

“QUOTE”

its not islamic. it should have done behind the closed doors and through lady volunteers.[Dr Jawwad Khan]

“UNQUOTE”

had you been aware of Bukhari and Muslim, you wouldn’t have written that above.

Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] never used lady volunteer for administring Hudd Sentence.

Please get Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and go through the narrations of a Hudd Sentence [on committing adultery] passed by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] against two of his Companions [May Allah be pleased with both of them]. One was Ma’aiz Aslami [May Allah be pleased with him] and other was a Lady Companion Ghamdiya [May Allah be pleased with her] were stonned to death publicly.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:06 am

oh god!

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 9:44 pm

“what i said that islamic code of conduct should not be violated.only ladies can be spectators of this punishment. for the real punishment you have to reveal her skin. tell me is it appropriate in the presence of men?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:08 am

while stoning can be done with out violating the islamic code in the presence of general public

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 12:14 am

pukhta afkar kahan dhoondnay jaey koee, is zamany ki hawa rakhtee hey har cheez ko kham, madrasa(school)aqal ko aazad to karta hey magar, chorh jata hey khayalat ko be rabt o nizam, murda la deeni afkar se afrang men ishq, aqal e be rabti e afkar se mashriq men ghulam [Dr Jawwad Khan]
===

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

Since you are very fond of Islam also of poetry so lets see how the ultimate source of Islam i.e. Quran views Poetry and Poets and please include Poet Iqbal in this category as well as mentioned in Quran:

“Shall I inform you upon whom the devils descend? They descend on every sinful, false one. They listen eagerly, but most of them are liars.As for poets, the erring follow them. Hast thou not seen how they stray in every valley, And how they say that which they do not? “[Verse 221-222-223- 224-225-226 Chapter 026 AL-SHUARA (THE POETS)]

And We have not taught him (Muhammad) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is naught else than a Reminder and a Lecture making plain, To warn whosoever liveth, and that the word may be fulfilled against the disbelievers. [Chapter 36 Verses 69-70 YA-SEEN (YA-SEEN)]

That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger. It is not poet’s speech - little is it that ye believe! Nor diviner’s speech - little is it that ye remember! It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. [Chapter 69 Verse 40-41-42-43 AL-HAAQQA (THE REALITY)]

Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

The Prophet said, “It is better for a man to fill the inside of his body with pus than to fill it with poetry.” [Muslim]

Comment by Syed on April 4, 2009 @ 12:17 am

I wish as it was done for Israel, other such people like Dr. Jawwad Khan (Yes comparison is intentional) should be given a Country of their own, with no external trade, communication etc. allowed with civilized world that we want to live in. BTW Dr. khan, this Internet you are using was not created by Allah(SWT) but by an American and that too as defense project and Yahoo Messenger/GTalk you may be using is based on works of a Zionist Israeli. As a true muslim who follows the real Islam, not like us mere mortals, please never ever use Internet again.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 12:21 am

what i said that islamic code of conduct should not be violated. [Dr Jawwad Khan]

================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,

Rogue Mullahs in NWFP have so thoroughly violated the below mentioned Islamic Conduct i.e. Open Khurooj and Takfeer of Muslims on the basis of Sinful Ruler [you cannot declare anyone Kaafir on the basis of sins because such was the practice of Khawarijs]

The crime of hiraba is based on the following Quranic verse:

The punishment for those who wage war [yuharibuna] against God and His Prophet, and perpetrate disorders in the land is: kill or crucify them, or have a hand on one side and a foot on the other cut off or banish them from the land (Quran 5:33).

Hands and legs to be cut off and their eyes to be branded with heated iron pieces and they were thrown at Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink, they were not given water. (Bukhari)

Hiraba is another hadd crime defined in the Quran. It is variously translated as “forcible taking,” “highway robbery,” “terrorism,” or “waging war against the state.”

Islamic legal scholars have interpreted this crime to be any type of forcible assault upon the people involving some sort of taking of property.It differs from ordinary theft in that the Quranic crime of theft (sariqa) is a taking by stealth whereas hiraba is a taking by force . (Thus, the popular translation as “armed robbery.”) Although it is generally assumed to be violent public harassment, many scholars have held that it is not limited to acts committed in public places.

It is in the discussions of the crime of hiraba where the crime of rape appears. A brief review of the traditional descriptions of hiraba reveals that rape is specifically included among its various forms. For example, in Fiqh-us-Sunnah, a modern summary of the primary traditional schools of thought on Islamic law, hiraba is described as: a single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women (”hatk al arad”), killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture. Reports of individual scholars on the subject further confirm the hiraba classification of rape. Al-Dasuqi, for example, a Maliki jurist, held that if a person forced a woman to have sex, their actions would be deemed as committing hiraba. In addition, the Maliki judge Ibn Arabi, relates a story in which a group was attacked and a woman in their party raped. Responding to the argument that the crime did not constitute hiraba because no money was taken and no weapons used, Ibn Arabi replied indignantly that “hiraba with the private parts” is much worse than a hiraba involving the taking of money, and that anyone would rather be subjected to the latter than the former. The famous Spanish Muslim jurist, Ibn Hazm, a follower of the Zahiri school, reportedly had the widest definition of hiraba, defining a hiraba offender as: [O]ne who puts people in fear on the road, whether or not with a weapon, at night or day, in urban areas or in open spaces, in the palace of a caliph or a mosque, with or without accomplices, in the desert or in the village, in a large or small city, with one or more people . . . making people fear that they’ll be killed, or have money taken, or be raped (”hatk al arad”) . . . whether the attackers are one or many “

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 12:29 am

@amina “well as far as Sharia law and its interpretation is concerned, I think I have read that you require at least four witnesses to prove that they actually saw the act of fornication. And since there were no four witnesses,”

do we know any background ? do we know any facts ? who proved that there were no four witnesses, may be there one? did anyone confirm ?

don’t claim things just on assumptions

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 12:39 am

oh god!

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 3, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
========================

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

You are very fond of Islami Shariah but in Shariah there is no entity named “GOD” which you have called. We call Allah not God

Comment by farrah, k.raja on April 4, 2009 @ 12:44 am

I am deeply pleased that this barbarity in the name of Islam is not acceptable to Pakistanis and for once Pakistan Media ,government and people have condemned it openly. We must not be harrased and blackmailed in the name of Islam. Islam does not belong to Moulvis and scholars alone.It belongs to everyone,whoever says he is a Muslim. Muslims of Pakistan do not need preaching of Islam .We do not need these Madrissahs . finally people of Pakistan cannot put it under the carpet saying we do not care. We do care.It is our lives. I must congratulate all people for contesting these so called …… Personally I believe they are lost cases and no dialogue is possible with them. Pakistan army must take a strong stand against them.This is not Islam and this is not face of Pakistan.Since this film was shown at channel 4 few weeks ago I was ashamed of myself. How can they claim Islam is a religion of equality and Justice when they consider women a sin in herself. This is the biggest challenge to Muslims all over the world. Challenge of faith. This war is not from outside we must not accept it is India,it is USA or it is XYZ. It is these extremists who are the major cause of Pakistan’s undoing. These people must dealt iron handedly now.

Comment by Khaled on April 4, 2009 @ 12:53 am

@ Jawwad Taliban and all the Talibans here

First of all who are the people giving those Shariah Punishments ? Is there any Islamic court present ? Is Swat under Pakistani Law or under Talibans Law ??( muslim han Spokesman of Talibans in Swat said this video is 10 months Old, At that time no Deal was made between Gov and Talibans so the law of the land was Pakistani Law)

Is Swat is declared as Islamic State ?

The So Called Nizam e Adal has nothing to do with Shariah it was an old method of Law in Swat from the time of Wali e Swat.

The details available till now and what GEO is showiong the only sin of that poor girl is to go out with her Father In Law,

I don’t accept these talibans as followers of Islam as they are doing suicidal attacks in the name of Islam, Islam never allowed suicide in any circumstances, it is Declared HARAM by Allah and Prophet (PBUH) so who the hell are Talibans who are preparing and urging people to do suicides ??

The people doing suicidal attacks are not only rejecting the Order of Allah but also giving a bad name to Islam and this incident is also a deviation against Islam.

To touch a Namahram Girl is a SIN in ISLAM and the Talibans are quite happily doing the sin themselves .

Comment by Khaled on April 4, 2009 @ 1:01 am

This incident also draws a line between Talibans and Anti Talibans in Pakistan, Jamat e Islami Ansar Abbasi are openly siding with talibans while the rest are against this act.

This incident also shows the real face of ansar abbasi as well, He is a Taliban and on the payroll of people made, finance and trained talibans. (Hameed Gul and Co)

Comment by farrah, k.raja on April 4, 2009 @ 1:08 am

It does not matter to me if it is a man or a woman.The treatment and humiliation is unacceptable. Who are the people awarding punishment?Who gives them the right todo us. It is not Shariat,It is black law. Shariat is a law,it needs a Qazi ,a Munsif,a witness ….in the absence of all this it is just barbaric twisted people using the name of Islam to make us shut up. Muslims must not accept this.

——-

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 1:18 am

@ khaled! i did not support this act. but i shall continue supporting hudoodullah.taliban just provided an opportunity for the secularist to spew their venome in the name of crime against women. why such a hue and cry? do we live in sweeden or denmark? we live in pakistan.where we see appaling injustices against men and women every day. women get burn alive, women kidnapped and raped all the time. where are you at that time? compare to the injustices in our rural area this punishment is nothing.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 1:34 am

Dear Ms Amina,

Problem with activist type of Muslim is this that they think that Islam exist in punishment whereas punishments are just a minor part of Islam to maintain order in society. Mullahs’ are possessed by the Genie of Piety - Yaani in Maulviyon par Taqway ka Bhoot Sawar Hai. Similarly veil and beard etc.etc in Islam but Islami is not just the name of Punishments, Beards, Veil, and Mullahs having Bad Breath but a way of life which in my humble opinion can only be spread in society gradually and systematically to create an environment for a healthy, clean and pious society. This cannot be achieved by those [Jihadis, Talibans, Afghan Warlords and Saudi and Irani Mutawwas] who had been Foot Soldiers for the US CIA during several of their Campaigns. Saudi Mullahs used in Iran Iraq War for issuing Fatwa against Iran, Irani Ayatullahs were part and parcel of Iran Contra Scandal, Pakistani Mullahs [Mawdudi] included since 1965 till even now are part and parcel of establishment, list goes on and on…

Comment by Dr RazaHaider on April 4, 2009 @ 1:36 am

Taliban’s are son of a bit*hes with no legitimate history but originating probably from brothel houses.

This is too painful and I feel so incapacitate that I am unable to help the girl by any means.

I must say I am ashamed in front of the whole world.

These people are destroying the image and philosophy of Islamic principle by their mongering and mustering behavior and we are sitting aloof; shedding eggs to let them derail and destroy the basic face book of Islam.

I would definitely own American action of drone if at all such figures as monsters are the target.

Under no means Taliban and Alqaida must escape.

Kill these bast*a*ds; the Taliban and Alqaida.

They are enemies to humanity.

My appeal to all!

This is not Islam nor are these b*sta*ds; Muslims.

These are Taliban’s; a new criminal illegitimate gender against all religion and beliefs.

Help us to eradicate these bas*a*ds.

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 1:48 am

@Dr Raza “This is too painful and I feel so incapacitate that I am unable to help the girl by any means”

I hope you would have same feelings for Dr Afia and all the girls that were massacred in lal masjid ? or am I wrong here?

Comment by farrah, k.raja on April 4, 2009 @ 1:54 am

Why some people want to take revenge of Dr Afia from whole of Pakistni women.
Can you touch Barbra Bush?Can you ask George Bush why he had Guantanamobay.
—–

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 1:54 am

All the tv channels asking is it right for a na-mehrams to hold the girl! while at the same time broadcasting advertisements/promos having the same very indecent things

how hypocrite can we get ?

Comment by Khaled on April 4, 2009 @ 2:03 am

@ Blog

Talibans are Holy Cows giving Huddod Punishments not Commercials makers and TV channels, SO the Question will be asked by the people called themselves Muslims and practice the real islam and flogging the girl in public with male visitors and holding that girl from hand and toes !!

@ Jawwad

May i know who has the power to give punishments on Hudood Allah cases ?

Comment by Khaled on April 4, 2009 @ 2:08 am

@ Blog

Lal Masjid operation was done by Army of Pakistan, after completing all the legal formalities, the Then ISI chief and now Army Chief gave the report to then Army Chief about Lal Masjid and ask him to take action, An SSG Col was shot dead by Militants of Lal Masjid.

Islam does not allow force implementation and the people who trying to impose the Islam through the barrel of gun not only defaming Islam but also trying to break Pakistan

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 2:10 am

Well, there is still hope for this country, as some of the comments show! As for those who don’t agree with my take on this flogging, well all I’ll say is that ‘the only truth in the world is perception’. If you perceive this as legal under the ‘Islamic law’, so be it then! However, as I and as all ‘rational’ Muslims perceive it, this is barbarous! As a Muslim, and as a ‘practicing’ Muslim, I strongly condemn it. First of all, saw a rather interesting interview on Dawn News, where the person who filmed this video was being interviewed. According to him, the girl’s family had previously rejected a suitor and that suitor later joined the Taliban and exacted revenge on the girl by falsely accusing her of adultery with a stranger and so had her flogged.

@ blog: Well, if there were ‘four’ witnesses, then I wonder why they were not mentioned. If you heard Taliban’s spokesperson’s interview with Geo TV, even he didn’t claim that there were four witnesses! But of course, since you know better…

@ Dr. Jawadkhan:

Excuse me doctor, last time I checked I was still a Muslim, just because I don’t follow your version of Islam, does not mean you have the divine right of accusing me of being ‘unislamic’! Ever read that verse in the Holy Quran: ‘Let there be no compulsion in religion’? Well, just what part of no compulsion you don’t understand? And btw, your point that the Taliban have given the secularists a chance to rant against Islam, well it’s a superb chance for you to set the record straight. But no, you’d rather the Taliban carried on with all this, while you would like to carry on with this metaphorical flogging of all secularists! Also, as a parting shot, may I quote Hazrat Ali (R.A) here? ” The Qur’an is but ink and paper, and it does not speak itself.” Even though human beings are the agents of God, they are not infallible creatures and are bound to make mistakes regarding implementation and interpretation of God’s rights. So nice try…

@Amir

Thanks for your support! I’m sick to death of this Taliban mentality taking over. Well, for the last time, our leader the Quaid, did not-as in never-called for Pakistan to be a theocracy, let alone a country where Taliban can prosper. Anyone who disagrees, please feel free to go anywhere in world, but please leave our country alone. I don’t want the same to happen to my country, as what happened in Afghanistan or Iran. So please leave us all in peace! Thanks.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 2:21 am

@amina could you please cut the version crap out? it is an straight forward order written in Quran e kareem. any one can see that.

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 2:29 am

@Amina Do you think that Quran by no impulsion means that you are free to break all the rules that are set out in Quran ?

Qur’an is noted in Surah 24 (An-Núr), Verse 2: “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”

@Khaled So the isi/army chief are divine their judgments can be questioned ? bhutto was also hanged after the completion of all the legal formalities ? does that make it right ? and its a open secret that who killed the col

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 2:31 am

@khaled! was that so simple? completing all the legal formalities and isi reported one commondo killed and finally operation.end of the story?

2000 man and women and chilredn were killed .there was REAL barbaric,merciless slaughter of people who stand for shariya not only by heavy weapons but also the chemical weapon like phosphorus bombs which literally eat up the human flash because of its burning fire. did you protested the same way like you are doing in the flogging case? why is there such kind of double standard?

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 2:43 am

Excuse me doctor, last time I checked I was still a Muslim, just because I don’t follow your version of Islam, does not mean you have the divine right of accusing me of being ‘unislamic’! [Amina]
========================

Dear Ms Amina,

Answers are as under particularly for those who at the drop of hat issue Fatwa of apostasy against any Kalima Reciting Muslims:

Whoever offers prayers as we do and turns his face to our Qiblah and eats the animal slaughtered by us, he is a Muslim for whom is the covenant of Allah and the covenant of the Messenger of Allah; so do not violate Allah’s covenant.” [Sahih Bukhari]

“Ibn Umar related that the Holy Prophet said: If a Muslim calls another kafir, then if he is a kafir let it be so; otherwise, he [the caller] is himself a kafir.”(Sunnan Abu Dawood)

“Abu Zarr reported that the Holy Prophet said: No man accuses another man of being a sinner, or of being a kafir, but it reflects back on him if the other is not as he called him.”(Bukhari)

“Withhold [your tongues] from those who say `There is no god but Allah’ — do not call them kafir. Whoever calls a reciter of `There is no god but Allah’ as a kafir, is nearer to being a kafir himself.” (Tabarani, reported from Abdullah Ibn Omar)

If the above Hadiths do not satisfy then read this!

Usaamah bin Zaid reported,

“Allaah’s Messenger sent us towards Al-Huruqa, and in the morning we attacked them and defeated them. I and an Ansari man followed a man from among them and when we overwhelmed him, he said, “La ilaha illal-Lah.” On hearing that, the Ansari man stopped, but I killed him by stabbing him with my spear. When we returned, the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) came to know about that and he said:

“O Usaamah! Did you kill him after he had said “La ilaha ilal-Lah?” I said, “But he said so only to save himself.” He kept on repeating that so often that I wished I had not embraced Islaam before that day. [Agreed upon, and this is the wording of Bukhari]

and in another version in Sahih Muslim about the same incident:

“Did you tear open his heart to see what was in it?” [Muslim]

Heresy, Apostasy & Misuse of Blasphemy Law - 1

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/11/heresy-apostasy-misuse-of-blasphemy-law.html

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 2:45 am

@farrah, k.raja Why some people want to take revenge of Dr Afia from whole of Pakistni women.
Can you touch Barbra Bush?Can you ask George Bush why he had Guantanamobay.”

this is not about taking revenge, why all the humping and jumping is being done on this issue ?

did you also protest the same way when some thieves were burnt alive in khi ? what is more barbaric lashing or burning? were the legal ‘formalities’ met before burning them?

Comment by SM Imran H Zaidi on April 4, 2009 @ 2:46 am

These taliban are nothing but agents of america and the zionists. They ridicule islamic law and are the main cause of the defacing of Islam in the wider public opinion. What is more sad is that some people in our country openly support this jahiliat; and rather than condemning it come up with stupid assumptions about the laws of sharia and how should it be implemented. Is this the type of Islam they want to establish in Pakistan; where we would see the public flogging of every woman without a trial and being touched by na-mehrams who are bad-mouthing each other? No wonder the outside world regards us as animals who have no regard absolutely for even our own religion.

Comment by Abdulrahman Rafiq on April 4, 2009 @ 2:58 am

Such barbaric atrocities must end. Lets send a message to the world, loud and clear that Pakistanis are alive and will not, at any cost let their country fall to the barbarism that we’ve witnessed today in Swat Valley. We’re a progressive, peace loving nation. Have had a few road blocks, but all is not lost. This land, it’s people have tremendous drive, great potential and talent to achieve the Sun and the Moon. Be it in Technology, Art, Science, Music we have it all. All we ask for just and sustainable Governance that supports the people and that our “Elected” Government honor it’s Social Contract with the People of Pakistan. Long live Pakistan!

Comment by Abdulrahman Rafiq on April 4, 2009 @ 3:05 am

Why has the video been removed from youtube?

Comment by Ibad on April 4, 2009 @ 5:26 am

SM Imran H Zaidi,

Offcourse you will say that because you are Shia and they are Sunni.

What is Islamic Law according to you? Muta? Taqqayiah? tabarrah?

You guys are getting a free ride in this so called war on terrorism..

Stop riding a free ride for your bughz-e- Abu Bakar and Omar.

Comment by Ibad on April 4, 2009 @ 5:35 am

SM Imran H Zaidi,

You forced me to post this.

Here is a brief about the free-riders in this *war of error*. 1) Shia say Imaams are higher in status than the Ambiyaa including our Nabi, Muhammad (S.A.W.W) Ref: Ibid / Al Hukumatul - Islaamiyaa - 52 Khomeni. Hayaatul Qutoob Vol 3, P10 /Ibid Vol 2. P787. Footnote

2)Taqiyyah (essentially means to lie to hide the truth) This means ‘Holy Deception’ Ref:(1.) Usul -e- Kafi

3)What they think of Sunnis:. 1.) Most dirty and polluted left over water is that of a sunni. 2.) Not permissable to marry sunni because they are Kaafir. 3.) Cannot eat animal slaughtered by sunni. 4.) Sunnis created from soul of Jahannam. 5.) Shia’s created from soul of Jannat.

Ref:1.) “Manlaa Yahuruldul Faqiah” - Vol 1. P8.( 2.) Tahdhidul Akaam/ Ibid Vol 3 P258. (3.) Ibid.( 4.) Usul - e- Kafi. (5.) Ibid.

Comment by noman on April 4, 2009 @ 5:44 am

@noman where is your favourite “Quran and sunnah” chant gone? munafiq spare no time ridiculing the laws of sharia indirectly

dactar jawaad

Quran is the supreme law but lets not even think of terming this barbaric criminal act as Islamic or sharaee.what I find truly disgusting is that thugs and bandits are using the name of islam for their own vested interest. Who are these guys? Who gave them the right to dispense so called justice? How do u know that the girl committed adultery? If so what about that man who was with her? Where are the 4 witness?

These so called Taliban are nothing but traitors within Pakistan. I ask you who is funding these guys? How come that they have enough money to buy weapons to fight the police and army? Obviously from the enemies of Pakistan and all those who want to harm and dismember this beloved country. Its not that the victim was just a woman.such barbaric acts have been taking place without prejudice to gender.a number of videos are available in which men are being beheaded , shot or flogged for alleged crimes.these so called thaikadars of muslim morality also have a muslim Canadian women in their custody.a journalist whose only crime was a being a foreign national.these guys have no respect for humanity.they have no morals and ethics.how can one even think of humane behaviour from barbarians like you who believe in suicide bombing, use of human shields, slander , abuses, filthy shameless language .

Blog and dactar sahib

Some criminals who should be punished by the rules of hud 1. maulana aziz ( aunty burqa) he should be punished for wearing female clothing and running along with na mehram girls. Atleast the same amount of koras for him and remember we all are witnesses of this crime. 2. ghazi should be punished posthumously in a manner similar to the dead body hangings by Taliban in swat.remember he said on tv that are no children inside lal mosque.he also used human shields ( as u have already accepted in ghazi criminal blog). 3. all the students of jamia hifza for roaming around in isb without mehrams and more so some of them from running away from jihad. Ghar walon ki mohabat jihad sai ziada aziz thi..lolz

Both of you can refer to imam kaabas opinion of the lal mosque affair.now don’t be ridiculous that he is also American and musharaf agent.

Its an open secret that ghazi wasn’t let go by his fellow terrorist. The video and many more like the same are reasons enough to hate all those even remotely associated with Taliban.

Shame on both of you for supporting crimes

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 6:20 am

Offcourse you will say that because you are Shia and they are Sunni. What is Islamic Law according to you? Muta? Taqqayiah? tabarrah? You guys are getting a free ride in this so called war on terrorism..Stop riding a free ride for your bughz-e- Abu Bakar and Omar.[Ibad]
===========
Dear Ibad Sahab,

Why do you forget that Lal Mosque Anarchist were quoting Karbala incident to justify their Khurooj [Mutiny], now read:

Quite a tragedy with Pakistani Religious Class who at the drop of hat declare any adversary as Yazeed without going into details. For Mawdoodi General Ayub was Yazeed, For PPP General Zia was Yazeed and for these Anarchic Mullahs [whose once biggest supporter was Musharraf and Establishment before 911] Musharraf was Yazeed.

In his alleged Last will Mualana Abdul Rashid Ghazi said by making Incident of Karbala a Hujjat [Proof] had said;

If our Amir Sayyidina Hussein R.A. was martyred in helplessness then we are proud to be part of the same caravan. Insha Allah, the Islamic revolution will come to this country.

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/alleged-last-will-of-ghazi-and-karbala.html

Hanafi School of thought on Khurooj:

Hazrat Hussain Ibn-e-Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] going against Ameer Yazid [May Allah have mercy on his soul] and the Sunni view on Yazid:

1) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.[AN-NISA (WOMEN) Chapter 4 Verse 59]

2) Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah. And whoever obeys my ruler (amir), obeys me, and whoever disobeys my ruler, disobeys me” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 6718 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1835).

3) Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Listen to and obey your ruler, even if he is an Abyssinian slave whose head looks like a raisin” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 6723 & Sahih Muslim).

4) Sayyiduna Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Whoever sees his ruler doing something he disapproves of, he should be patient, for no one separates from the (Muslim) group even for a span and then dies, except that he will die a death of (pre-Islamic) ignorance. (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 6724 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1849).

5) Sayyiduna Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “A Muslim must listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) in things that he likes or dislikes, as long as he is not ordered to commit a sin. If he is ordered to disobey Allah, then there is no listening and no obedience. (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 6725 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1839).

The above evidences are clear in establishing the fact that one must obey the ruler even if he is corrupt or a sinner (fasiq). The reason for this, in the words of Allama al-Ghunaymi, is that, there have been many corrupt rulers in Islamic history and never did the predecessors (salaf) rebel against them, rather they used to submit to their rule and establish Jumu’ah and Eid prayers with their permission. Also, piety is not a pre-requisite for leadership. (Sharh al-Ghunaymi, p. 110).

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 6:34 am

1) Shia say Imaams are higher in status than the Ambiyaa including our Nabi, Muhammad (S.A.W.W) Ref: Ibid / Al Hukumatul - Islaamiyaa - 52 Khomeni. Hayaatul Qutoob Vol 3, P10 /Ibid Vol 2. P787. [Ibad]
==========================

Dear Ibad Sahab,

I hope you and Jawwad Sahab would agree with the Ideology of Mawdudi and you will love the Islamic Revolution of Mawdudi-Khomeini Brand of Islam.

How would you define this blasphemy by Mawdudi [Spiritual God Father/Founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Friend of Khomeini]:

Khomeini once made a statement which was published in the Tehran times (Kitaab be Noujawanaan - P8) that if he conquers Madina Munawwarah, he will remove the two idols (Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) besides Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). I am certain that no believer will accept such a statement against the great luminaries of Islam. Are we then to condemn only Khomeini and condone Mawdudi knowing well that Mawdudi was a close friend of Khomeini and was sympathetic to his course. In a book titled, ‘Two brothers - Maududi and Khomeini’ page 129, the following statement of Dr Ahmad Farouk Maududi (son of Abul-A’ala Maududi) was published in Roz Naame, Lahore - 29 September 1979, “Allama Khomeini had a very old and close relationship with Abba Jaan (father). Aayaatullah Khomeini translated his (fathers) books in Farsi and included it as a subject in Qum. Allama Khomeini met my father in 1963 during Hajj and my father’s wish was to create a revolutionary in Pakistan similar to Iran. He was concerned about the success of the Iranian revolution till his last breath.’

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 6:59 am

Hassan, didnt ur prophet (peace be upon me) used war in early stages to spread islam? Didnt he behead ppl (read: jews) in the wars? Of course he then married a 9 yr old child. Talibans are immitating ur Prophet of so called peace. Stick to 1500 yrs old religion which was developed in tribes of Arabia. 21st century application of tht religion is barbarism. Peace be upon all of us who have to go thru this religion.

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 7:12 am

For the first time I agree with Doc.. Doc u r right. Islam is barbaric. If u believe in ur Allah then ur quran prescribes it. Go back to dark ages and bomb each other. world will be a better place without u!

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 7:46 am

Dear Mr. Mishra, This is not a discussion on religion. If you want to spew venom against Islam, plz check out any of the following sites and deploy it here:

http://www.jihad-watch.org

http://www.faithfreedom.org

And kindly read carefully the code of ethics before jumping in a discussion and enlightening a whole group of people with your views. Oh, and if you’d like to read up on Islam itself, then I recommend

http://www.masud.org.uk

http://www.altmuslim.net

Peace!

@ doctor.jawwadkhan:

See my good doc, thats what comes out of declaring every barbaric thing legal in the name of Islam! Kindly state carefully in the next post if you are a Muslim or a member of the bloody cult known as Taliban. Because its funny that you mention all sorts of verses in your defense but never discuss the verses I’ve quoted!

@ Ibad: Excuse me sir, please read up Amir Mughal’s post to check out the definition of a Muslim. A Muslim is a person who believes in the Kalima. Period. And Shiites are very much a part of Islam. So kindly watch your mouth.

@ Amir Mughal: Thank God for a voice of sanity!

@ S.M. Imran H Zaidi:

You are absolutely spot on. To fight the Taliban we need to fight this ‘Taliban’ mentality. (which incidentally some people also display here). And don’t let claims by some enlightened souls, that because you are a Shiite, you are less of a Muslim, deter you.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 7:47 am

Of course he then married a 9 yr old child. [Ajay Mishra]
=========================

Dear Mr Mishra,

You are wrong.

The Holy Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]’s Marriages - 1

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-prophet-mohammad-pbuhs-marriages-1.html

The Holy Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]’s Marriages - 2

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-prophet-mohammad-pbuhs-marriages-2.html

========

didnt ur prophet (peace be upon me) used war in early stages to spread islam? Didnt he behead ppl (read: jews) in the wars? [Ajay Mishra]
=================

Dear Sir,

You are wrong again, read the posts completely and you will get answers for your every query.

Conquest of Persia and Islam.

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/conquest-of-persia-and-islam.html

Regards

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 7:56 am

Thanks for the references, yes, I’d suggest Mr.Mishra to read up this material.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 7:57 am

Ever read that verse in the Holy Quran: ‘Let there be no compulsion in religion’? Well, just what part of no compulsion you don’t understand? [Amina]

didnt ur prophet (peace be upon me) used war in early stages to spread islam? Didnt he behead ppl (read: jews) in the wars? [Ajay Mishra]

==================

Dear Ms. Amina and Mishra Sahab,

For your kind perusal

And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers? [YUNUS (JONAH) Chapter 10 - Verse 99]

And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender. [AL-ANKABOOT (THE SPIDER) Chapter 29 - Verse 46]

Had Allah willed, they had not been idolatrous. We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them. Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do. [AL-ANAAM (CATTLE, LIVESTOCK) Chapter 6 - Verse 107 and 108]

Muslims have already been advised:

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. [AL-BAQARA (THE COW) Chapter 2 - Verse 256]

And if any Muslim has still got the itch for Islami Dawah (Preaching) then the only option with Muslims is this:

Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright. [AN-NAHL (THE BEE) Chapter 16 - Verse 125]

As per History of Ibn-e-Khaldun [Volume 2]

When the Caliph Omar (May Allah be pleased with him) entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city. Proclaiming to the inhabitants that their lives, and property were safe, and that their places of worship would never be taken from them, he asked the Christian patriarch Sophronius to accompany him on a visit to all the holy places.

======

Christian missionary, T.W. Arnold had this opinion on his study of the question of the spread of Islam: “. Of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain (Thanks to Civil Wars in Muslim Rulers of Spain - History by Ibn Khaldun Volume 5, 6 and 7 ), or Louis XIV made Protestanism…” It is a function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world.

Comment by Ibad on April 4, 2009 @ 8:33 am

Aamir Mughal,

First of all, lets make this clear. I am not a Jamat-e-Islami supporter. After making this clear I would like to ask you about this…

Khomeini once made a statement which was published in the Tehran times (Kitaab be Noujawanaan - P8) that if he conquers Madina Munawwarah, he will remove the two idols (Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) besides Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him).

So if Khomeni(Kizzab) said so, does that mean any one who has terms with him would go to hell as well?

So does that mean, if you have a Kafir friend and you hang out with him, you are a kafir? get some fresh air, PLZ.

Dear Amir Mughal, you can go on and self-promote, I have no problem, but don’t try to act like a scholar.

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 9:21 am

Here more proof of ur land of pure. and religion of peace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5fVE1p6YOo&feature=related

Aamir u trying to say Muhammad didnt marry a 9 yr ols ayesha? didnt consummate his marriage. 1400 yrs ago it might be ok. 60 yr old marrying a child. IN todays world its known as pedophile. Yet no Muslim has the guts to say tht its wrong! Muhammad is ur ideal man right. A pedophiel, polygamit, war monger is ur ideal man? The day Muslim ll ve guts to say tht my religion has some ills and we should rectify it, this blind extremism will stop. Till thn Peace be upon us :)

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 9:21 am

Here more proof of ur land of pure. and religion of peace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5fVE1p6YOo&feature=related

Aamir u trying to say Muhammad didnt marry a 9 yr ols ayesha? didnt consummate his marriage. 1400 yrs ago it might be ok. 60 yr old marrying a child. IN todays world its known as pedophile. Yet no Muslim has the guts to say tht its wrong! Muhammad is ur ideal man right. A pedophile, polygamist, war monger is ur ideal man? The day Muslim ll ve guts to say tht my religion has some ills and we should rectify it, this blind extremism will stop. Till thn Peace be upon us :)

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 9:56 am

this incident is just being used to spew out hidden hatred against Islam! no one answered that why they didn’t condemn the burning of thieves in Karachi and are crying hell over this one?

Comment by noman on April 4, 2009 @ 10:31 am

blog…did u answer what i asked?

ofcourse burning of theives in karachi is also condemned.burning of any public pvt property to show anger, or a means to show disapproval to anything is condemned.

but the difference is that in karachi that was not done in the name of shariat or islam..im not defending them.it was absolutely a cruel act.

i asked few questions in my post so i would like u to answer them as dactar sahib intellectual ability only permits him to abuse, slander and put up filth.

you being supporting the act lets hear from you.i would like to know answers of my specific questions not things from here and there.

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 10:52 am

Blog is right.. a lot of us hate islam.. but feel repressed about it..

So either we accept it fully, with of course the flogging punishments, child marriages and other such issues,

Or accept the point Amina is making that Islam might have been okay back then in the Arabian peninsula but needs some ijtehad or modifications now.

Hasan

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 11:04 am

@noman what are you trying to imply here ?
does not using the name of Islam make it less of a crime?

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 11:23 am

@noman

Who are these guys?

May be taliban from swat area

Who gave them the right to dispense so called justice?

talbian have been running a defacto govt in swat for sometime now, these things happen when state fails to fulfill its responsibilities and fails to provide justice to people . the same question can be also be asked about our current judicial system ? who gave them the right to dispense punishments based on English law ? did anyone ask us if we want sharia law or a messed up version of english law ?

How do u know that the girl committed adultery?

How do you know that girl did not commit zina?

If so what about that man who was with her?

may be he was also punished but we won’t see that video as it wont sell well with the media

Where are the 4 witness?

again we don’t know if there were witnesses or not, so we should not reach to conclusions without knowing the details

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 11:50 am

“How would you define this blasphemy by Mawdudi [Spiritual God Father/Founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Friend of Khomeini”

where is the blasphemy einstein?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 11:56 am

@blog! you want to know about noman! see his comments on the blog “shaheed or halak”
he is there since one and half year spewing venom against the people who were brutaly messacred. he is a living munafiq.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

@amina! would you please tell me how ajay mishra is different from many pakistani secularists? his comments are the same we use to read from those pakis secularists who are also posting in this blog.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

@Hasan!
modification in ALLAH’S(SWT) divine work?
you people are just great.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:14 pm

@Hasan!
modification in ALLAH’S(SWT) divine work?
like GM food? no one not even poor & hungry countries of africa ready to get it free.
you people are just great.

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

Guys, is it that difficult for us to stay on topic? This discussion as I perceive it, started with the condemnation of the flogging incident, but has now grown into a full blown argument about the so-called munafiqs, secularists and unislamic Muslims and Sunni-Shiite issues. I honestly feel like being part of a ‘Taleem-e-Blaighan’ class, minus the learning potential!

For the last time, those who continue to support flogging as ‘Islamic’, please read the Quran first, carefully, and then tafsir and translation by ‘Muhammad Asad’, not by that blithering idiot Mawdoodi, who did more damage to Islam through his home spun freak ideology than even the Taliban can do through this flogging. And, btw, Prophet (pbuh) himself recommended Ijtehad to one of his companions.

Lastly, please read this fantastic article by ‘Abdal Hakim Murad’, a Muslim convert:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ht/faith-future.html

Hope he clarifies much of your misconceptions. Peace!

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

@Doc

Is flogging Islamic? Short Answer

@Amina

I am very pleased that you have read the references. I would be indebted if you can enlighten me about the same issue I asked Doctor Jawed, that is, is Flogging Islamic

this is because if it is Islamic, then I am confused whether I should condemn this or not. I know I should be asking some real authorities, but the ‘real’ authorities if they exist do state that flogging is islamic

since you have elaborated that you are against flogging, I am directing my question towards you too.

Sincerly,
Hasan

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

@ Miss Amina
A whole book is a very hefty citation. Can you be more specific, like with the number of page you are referring to, or perhaps the actual quote(s) you intend to use

Again, thanks for bearing

Hasan

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

@Amina!
please tell us more about the “muhammed asad” because i do not recognize this name.never heard about him.while moulana syed abul aala modudi have a world wide recognition,even in the eminent scholars and ulema. his work is out standing.i personaly feel that he was the mujtahid of 20th century. did you ever read his book? i dont think so.. please rest assured that the orders of ALLAH(swt) about flogging,stoning and other islamic jurisprudence is not some thing which can be interpretated other wise by any one. you know why because it is written clearly in QURAN. please tell me how mr “mohammed asad” translated the aayat e mubarika of sura nur-2.
best regards

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 12:57 pm

@Doc

If somebody (or some group of people) does not accept to abide by the rule of Quran, does anybody have to right to make them do otherwise?

Please provide references. I see a forceful coercion on the part of Taliban on the people of Pakistan.

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 1:05 pm

@Hasan

Hasan I won’t pretend to be a scholar, I am a common Muslim, and as Doctor sb here would tell you, a secularist! But the truth is like a common Muslim, I have struggled with my faith and frankly I have some issues with some parts of Islamic teachings, but then it is part of God’s order to the Muslim Ummah, that we should always question our faith. The beauty of Islam, as I see it is that there are so many different interpretations of Islam and Quran and because of it, not inspite of it, it’s one of the fastest growing faiths!

Having said that, it depends if you denounce the act of flogging itself or flogging in the context of Islamic teachings. As for the act itself, well I don’t have anything against flogging, as long as its the bloody Taliban that are being flogged! But when an innocent girl is being flogged and is begging for mercy, I’d never condone it. Period. And the funny thing is that Islam does not condone it either. Flogging is prescribed for those who spread ‘fitnah’ in community. Well, exactly what sort of fitnah does a 17 year old girl spread, I ask you! If anything, its the Taliban who are doing it, so they should be flogged! Secondly, it’s nowhere mentioned in the Quran that the implementation of Sharia is necessary in all Muslim countries. Sharia laws are suggested to the Muslims as a possible means of countering the vices in a society, and lets face it, the society we are talking about (pre Islamic Arabia) was a barbaric one itself. It did deserve many of such laws, what do you expect from a people who bury their daughters alive!

Having said that, please do look up the following scholars on net, I’ve often mailed them my questions and they always answer my queries.

Khalid Abou el Fadl
Omid Safi
Abdal Hakim Murad
Masud Ahmad Khan.

Look up the website http://www.masud.org.uk, there are plenty of excellent articles online. They might help.

In the end, I’d like to say that as a ‘Muslim feminist’, I’m completely at peace with the teachings of the Prophet in regard to women. Also look up the fascinating feministic tafsir of the Quran by ‘Laila Abu Lugud’. She meticulously translates the Quranic teahings and explains it. I wish you luck!

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

@hasan!
not abiding by the rules of Quran is not the problem in the islamic jurisprudence.islam’s main concern is not to allow the people violating its rule openly. for example you fast or do not fast is the problem between you and ALLAH(swt)and its nothing to do with islamic penal code. but if you eat publicly in the month of ramadan then it will and it should be a problem.

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

Thank you for your response. Please tell me about my second query. Apparently such people who do not want to live by the rule of Quran are spreading fitnah.

Its a choice after all, if I do not make it, then what?

Comment by hasan on April 4, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

And wow! Sharia is a choice? you sure about that?

Comment by SM Imran H Zaidi on April 4, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

@ Ibad

Why do you need us shias to show your true face? Why do all you guys go rabid at the sight of shias; quoting misleading articles from wahabi propaganda sites? See you are a typical wahabi supporter of the taliban who probably gets petrodollars for anti-shia statements or maybe some mulla promised you 72 virgins. Why dont you move to swat to implement the flogging of women in the open; because thats what you are; an animal. I do not need you to tell me what my sharia tells me. Stop quoting information from wahabi/nasibi/jewish propaganda sites.

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 1:40 pm

@amina I quoted Verse 2 from Sura Noor Above What do you say about that ? isn’t that clear enough ?

“it’s nowhere mentioned in the Quran that the implementation of Sharia is necessary in all Muslim countries”

What a lame argument is this! if there implementation is not necessary then why is Quran setting out the rules ? where in Quran is mention about ‘muslim countires’ ? all Muslims are one nation

Islam tells us to ‘ Islam mein pora pora dakhil ho gaio”

its not that we take out the part we like and reject the other part have you heard the proverb “MEETHA MEETHA harap harap KARWA KARWA tho tho too” ?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 1:40 pm

it sounds like whenever i get angry i kill my opponent. obeying the authority is not a choice its compulsion because the law is out there and i have to face the consequences if i violate the laws.
i couldn’t understand the point.

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

@ dr.jawwadkhan: Well to answer your questions, Mr Muhammad Asad was a Jewish convert to Islam and served as one of PAkistan’s first ambassadors to the United Nations. His translation of the Holy Quran is considered one of the best, if not the best among all translations.

@ blog: Here my friend is the Muhammad Asad translation, please see the difference for yourself:

(1) A Surah [is this] which We have bestowed from on high, and which We have laid down in plain terms; and in it have We bestowed from on high messages which are clear [in themselves], so that you might keep [them] in mind.

(2) AS FOR the adulteress and the adulterer flog each of them with a hundred stripes, and let not compassion with them keep you from [carrying out] this law of God, if you [truly] believe in God and the Last Day; and let a group of the believers witness their chastisement

(3) [Both are equally guilty:] the adulterer couples with none other than an adulteress - that is, a woman who accords [to her own lust] a place side by side with God; and with the adulteress couples none other than an adulterer - that is, a man who accords [to his own lust] a place side by side with God: and this is forbidden unto the believers.

(4) And as for those who accuse chaste women [of adultery], and then are unable to produce four witnesses [in support of their accusation], flog them with eighty stripes and ever after refuse to accept from them any testimony - since it is they, they that are truly depraved!

(5) excepting [from this interdict] only those who afterwards repent and made amends: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

Now according to this translation, adulterer and adultress are defined as those “who accord [to their own lust] a place side by side with God”. Clear? Somehow, I cant see the Swati girl having committed this crime! If you are interested in the entire translation plz visit the following site:

http://al-quran.info/

This is an online Quran project that offers free translations of the Holy Quran in many languages. Feel free to browse the webpage.

Peace on all of you!

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

For more on Mr. Muhammad Asad, this is the wikipedia entry:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Asad

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 3:01 pm

@amina
that is not translation, it is his own interpretation and If doubt if any of the main stream ulema agree with that meaning , the aaiyah is clear enough but still some people are bent on twisting its meaning! What do you say about amputation of hands and legs is that also against shria in your version of islam ?

Comment by Danial Burki on April 4, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

It’s amazing the amount of shit that can result from a made-up story that people think is the Ultimate Truth.

Truly amazing, that we’ve developed higher brains and yet billions of people choose to waste them.

Comment by yaseen ch on April 4, 2009 @ 3:36 pm

i think we will bring them to justice and they will be hanged publicly believe me,this will happen soon.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

Danial

I just had a discussion with many of people and the best people I know think thats its a made-up story and yet another Hollywood prank (so many of us know that Taliban do have Amerian Intelligence people in them). I also think so. Well I have strong points to think like that. If anybody want to discuss on this very aspect, he/she is more than welcome.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 4, 2009 @ 4:12 pm

The made-up story I was referring to was religion! Heh. Sorry for the confusion.

As for the veracity of this video, it has been confirmed by several eye-witnesses, including a correspondent of a national Urdu daily’s Pindi bureau.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 4:15 pm

Pakistan main eye witness

You can buy a 100 with money!

Comment by noman on April 4, 2009 @ 4:19 pm

danial

its not just about this story .a lot of such crap has been goin on in the name of religion. i have no issue with sharaee law but that has to be really defined and not on some mullahas whim or fancy.

blog

Pakistan since its creation in 1947 had 3 constitutions and a number of elections.even now members have been elected from swat. The people of swat know whats right for them. But at the moment wahan danday ka qanoon hai.if people want change they would vote for it.a change can never be imposed. And as far as sharia is concerned who will decide which version of fiqh to follow? The current govt wether gud or bad has been elected by the ppl.we have to follow it. We cannot commit kharooj. As it is forbidden in islam. Coz it is cause of fisad as evident.

The girl is innocent till her crime has been proven in a legitimate court of law whether through nizam e adal the federal shariah court or the Pakistan penal court. But it must be recognized law.we cannot be held hostage by bandits. About the man ur mistaken.that too would sell . a lot of videos are available and hv been shown by the media regarding beheading of men. Why didn’t u answer on my proposals for lal mosque and jamia hifza culprits.

Jawaaaaaaaad

You have rendered exemplary services to the criminal of lal mosque. As their chief spokesman u have introduced sharaee galam galoch which must have been taught to u by ur religious family. Word lolmycin and accusation of prostitution must be daily exchanges between u and them. U must be in a habit of calling ur family members as kafirs on petty disagreements.lolz.

So u also disagree with imam e kaaba despite being in saudia and believing in its system..then who is munafiq????/
Lolz

Waisay maulana burqa ko hamid mir bhi aunty kehta hai.

Lal mosque/hifza brigade /swat /fata are all foreign sponsored traitors within Pakistan.

They shd be treated with an iron hand.we have the examples of sahaba karam dealing with such fitnas.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 4:21 pm

RELIGIOUS INSTITUTES ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF DIRT, THATS WHY THEY EARN NO RESPECT.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 4:25 pm

@amina! the question was that are we ready for implementation of shariya or not? one can question the judegement and procedure taliban adopted in that flogging case.but being a muslim you can’t question the hudoodullah. it make me sad when i see the muslims over reacting on such issues while we have ignored much appaling issue with out a word of protest. why such kind of hue and cry over a flogging? why not on the pregnant lady who were murdered after made he attack by canines and forced her to deliver her baby and then killed that baby too? do you remember that incident. where are we at that time? why we did not protest? because those barbarics were not belongs to taliban?

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

There are people who are true Muslims; but in a corrupt nation, no fair person can survive, so we are always left with stupid and corrupt people ruling us. Pakistani people are always manipulated by such stupid stories.

Noman

I am sick of this personal attack thing. We are here to improve ourselves not calling names.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 4:27 pm

@nomaaaaan i will slap the gaurd for not checking your cage properly. again he left it open.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 4, 2009 @ 4:36 pm

@Fahd Murtaza: So the video is doctored by CIA agents who are embedded in the Taliban; and you will not trust any eyewitnesses. So you’re not convinced that the Taliban have conducted this barbaric act?

You’re walking on thin ice, mate; especially as the Tallies, Mullah (Faz)Lullah’s spokesperson to be precise, have admitted that this took place and that too in the last ten days or so.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

“RELIGIOUS INSTITUTES ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF DIRT, THATS WHY THEY EARN NO RESPECT” because many pakistanis started respecting brothels. yes thats right.if you do not believe me ask @noman. @noman is still furious at ghazi abdul rasheed shaheed on forcibly removing prostitutes from the brothel.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

“How would you define this blasphemy by Mawdudi [Spiritual God Father/Founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Friend of Khomeini” where is the blasphemy einstein? [Dr Jawwad Khan]

=======================

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

I didn’t know that you dont consider bad mouthing the Companions of Prophet a Blasphemy. Read what Khomeini has to say about Sahaba and then read how Mawdudi and Jamat-e-Islami supported Khomeini. As per Islamic Punishment [your favourite] 80 lashes for those who badmouth a Sahabai [Durrurl Beh Imam Shawkani and Balogh Al Maram by Hajar Asqalani] and Mawdudi’s book Khilafat o Malookiyat is full of it.

Khomeini once made a statement which was published in the Tehran times (Kitaab be Noujawanaan - P8) that if he conquers Madina Munawwarah, he will remove the two idols (Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) besides Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). I am certain that no believer will accept such a statement against the great luminaries of Islam. Are we then to condemn only Khomeini and condone Mawdudi knowing well that Mawdudi was a close friend of Khomeini and was sympathetic to his course. In a book titled, ‘Two brothers - Maududi and Khomeini’ page 129, the following statement of Dr Ahmad Farouk Maududi (son of Abul-A’ala Maududi) was published in Roz Naame, Lahore - 29 September 1979, “Allama Khomeini had a very old and close relationship with Abba Jaan (father). Aayaatullah Khomeini translated his (fathers) books in Farsi and included it as a subject in Qum. Allama Khomeini met my father in 1963 during Hajj and my father’s wish was to create a revolutionary in Pakistan similar to Iran. He was concerned about the success of the Iranian revolution till his last breath.’

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

“Mawdudi’s book Khilafat o Malookiyat is full of it” now you are disoppointing me.do you know what is the meaning of blasphemy? @amir mughal! you have a talent.please do not waste it in cheap & third rated crap.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 5:06 pm

This is getting much personal, come on guys!

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 5:07 pm

be a “shedaee” rather than “halwaee” of sawa panch rupiya.

Comment by John Maszka on April 4, 2009 @ 5:18 pm

Hello,

I’m doing research on terrorism, and I’ve put together a pre-survey questionnaire that I’m circulating in order to get feedback on what a non-biased (non-western, non-white) survey might look like. The final survey will go out later this year.

The survey can be accessed at johnmaszka.com/SURVEY.html

Would you post it, and possibly circulate it? I’m very interested in incorporating the views of women, non-whites, and people living outside of America and Western Europe.

I’d appreciate it.

Thanks!
Take care,

John Maszka

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 6:29 pm

“Mawdudi’s book Khilafat o Malookiyat is full of it”

now you are disoppointing me.do you know what is the meaning of blasphemy? @amir mughal! you have a talent.please do not waste it in cheap & third rated crap.
=========================

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

I know very well what is blasphemy and Mawdudi has openly insulted the Companion of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] in his accursed book “Khilafat O Malookiyat and insulting Companions of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] is tantamount to insult the Prophet Mohammad [PBUH].

Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] “Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the angels and all the people” [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee].

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 4, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

refrences? refrences from his books. refrences rather than speculations

Comment by SM Imran H Zaidi on April 4, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

This whole taliban thing is perpetrated by the usa and its minions using saudi petro-dollars in our country. These illiterate people fight less for islam and more for the 72 virgins which their leader mullahs see in dreams. It is worthwile to mention that these so called talibani jihadi madrassahs have been the breeding grounds for the worst paedophiles to exist on the planet. Boy they’re in for a surprise when they wake up on the other side…

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 7:41 pm

refrences? refrences from his books. refrences rather than speculations [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================

“QUOTE”

1) Syed Abul ‘Ala Mawdudi in, Khilafat o Mulukiyat, states:

“One more dis-liked innovation (bid’at) that reigned in the time of Hadhrat Muawiya [ra], that he himself (khud), and by his orders all (tamam) his governers, in their sermons (khutboon) through the pulpit reviled and insulted (sab o shatm) Hadhrat Ali [ra]. Even yet, in the mosque of the Prophet (S), through the pulpit (minbar) before the rawdah e nabawi, the dearest of the Prophet’s (S) relatives were villified (gal’ian) and Hadhrat Ali’s (ra) children and the nearest of his kin bore witness to these villifications (gali’an).”

No interpretation should ever be made wherein the status and honour of any Nabi (Prophets-PBUT) is slurred. The perfect example of our Nabi (PBUH) is right before our eyes. Study the entire treasure of Hadiths {Traditions of Holy Prophet Mohammad-PBUH}, and you will never find a single word, which denotes even the slightest disrespect to any Nabi. However, the sharp pen of Mawdoodi has even reached the sanctity and respect of the Prophets {PBUHT}. He mentions with indifference and informally:

1- “The example of Moses {PBUH} is like an impatient conqueror, who marches ahead without making arrangements for those who he left behind, and behind him rebelliousness spreads like a wild, uncontrolled fire”. [Risala Tarjumanul Quran – Vol 29, No 4, page 5 September 1946]

2- “Hadhrat Dawood [Holy Prophet David – PBUH] was influenced by the general Israeli society’s custom during his era and asked Urya to issue a Talaaq (Divorce).” [Tafheemat, Part 2, page 42, second edition]

3- “There was base and carnal desire in the act of Hadhrat Dawood {Prophet David – PBUH} and there was inappropriate usage and abuse in his authority. It was an act which did not suit any consenting person in the government.” [Tafheemul Quran , Part 4, Soora Swaad, page 327, First Publication September 1966]

4- Regarding Hadhrat Nooh {Holy Prophet Noah – PBUH} he states:

“Sometimes a delicate and natural occasions arises for a Nabi {Prophet}, even such lofty and honoured humans are prone to give in to their human weaknesses. But when Allah Tala gave him a warning that the son who was left the Haqq {Faith} and took to Baatil {Infidelity}, understand him to be yours purely for this reason that he was born from your back. It was the result of ignorance. He then immediately disregarded this wound in his heart.” [Tafheemul Quran, part 2, page 344, third publication 1964].

5- Regarding the statement of Hadhrat Yousuf {Holy Prophet Joseph – PBUH}:“Appoint me as treasurer of the land”

Mawdoodi states: “This was not merely a request for the post of the treasury, as some people assume, in fact, it was a desire for dictatorship. As a result of this, the position which Yusuf {PBUH} achieved was very much similar to the position Mussolini had held in Italy.” [Tafheemat, part 2, page 122, fifth publication 1970]

6- Hadhrat Yunus {Holy Prophet Jonah – PBUH} was neglectful in the duty of prophethood. Presumably he left his place before time after losing his patience.” [Tafheemul Quran, Part 2 Suran Younus, footnote 312, 313, third publication 1964]

7- “Here you should understand the reality of the human weaknesses that was apparent of Adam (PBUH). A spontaneous emotion caused by satanic encouragement made him negligent. As soon as his self-control languished he fell from the lofty pedestal of obedience into the pit of sin.” [Tafheemul Quran, page 133, vol 3]

8- Concerning one of the holy wives (RA) of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH} he says: “She became a little bold in opposition to Prophet (PBUH) and began abusing him”. [Weekly Asia Lahore, Pakistan, 19th November 1976 and Tafheemul Quran, Vol 6, page 24-26 in Soora Tehreem].

If we use these words which were used by Mawdoodi for Prophets {PBUT} and Prophet’s Wife {PBUH – RA} for Maulana Mawdoodi and his wife, the Jamat-e-Islami and their supporters would raise hell all over the place. For example, if it is stated that Maulana is a dictator, a Hitler or a Mussolini of his time, he acts according to his carnal desires, he is overcome by the emotions of ignorance, he is abusing his authority and he has been deficient in fulfilling his responsibility, etc.etc. If these words are deemed derogatory and disrespectful when used in relation to Maulana Mawdoodi, then let us be fair, how can they ever possibly be suitable for the lofty status of the Prophets {PBUT}?

It is obvious that the respected wife of Maulana Mawdoodi is not more disciplined or holier than the wife of Prophet {PBUH}. If any of his follower has to comment that Maulana’s wife speaks out of turn in his presence, then Maulana will regard this statement as insulting and humiliating. Therefore I cannot understand how a statement which is regarded as irreverent for Mawlana could not be offensive for Prophet {PBUH} and his {PBUH} wives {May Allah be praised with all of them}.

After the Prophets {PBUT}, the most sacred group is that of the Sahaabah {Companions of the Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)}. Whatever has emanated from Mawdoodi’s pen in his books “Tajdeed Wa Ahyaa-e-Deen”, Khilafat Wa Mulukiyat”, and “Tafheemul Quran”, etc.etc. regarding Hazrat Usman Ibn-e-Affan (RA), Hazrat Ali Ibn-e-Talib (RA), Hazrat Talha (RA), Hazrat Zubair (RA), Hazrat Ayesha Siddiqua (RA), Hazrat Muawiyah Bin Sufiyan (RA), Hazrat Abu Moosa Al Ashari (RA), Hazrat Amr Bil Aas (RA) and other Sahaba, I regard as pure Shiaism. After studying Mawlana’s writings I have come to the conclusion that just as he is unaware of the reverence of Prophethood, similarly he is unaware of the ranks of the Sahaabah.

“No Wali {saint} can reach the status of the Sahaabah. Hadhrat Uwais Qarni {RA} with all his loftiness could not match the lowest Sahaabi because he did not achieve the benefaction of the company of Prophet Mohammad {PBUH}. Someone asked Abdullah Bin Mubarak {RA- Scholar of Hadith} as to who is nobler, Hadrath Muawiya or Umar bin Abdul Aziz. He replied: “The dust that settled in the nose of Muawiyah’s horse in the company of Prophet {PBUH} is by far better than Umar Bin Abdul Aziz {RA}.” [Mujjaddid Alfe Sani].

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/mawdoodi-and-jamat-e-islami-part-1.html

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

refrences? refrences from his books. refrences rather than speculations [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================

Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami and their blind supporters while defending the Filth Compiled by Mawdudi in Khilafat O Malookiyat and in several volumes of Mawdudi’s Commentary in Tafheem, say that it is all written in the books of Islamic History, ok, very well.

Lets have a survey of Islamic History and how it was compiled [I have History by Tabari, Tabaqat-e-Ibn-Saad, History by Ibn Khalqan, History by Ibn Khaldun, History by Ibn Kathir - Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya, History of Sahaba by Ibn Athir in my personal Library and May Allah guide me and you as well and May He protect our faith intact after going through the Lies these Islamic Historians concocted and attributed it to Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and his Companions [May Allah have mercy on every single one of them]

Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari: “I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything sounds absurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable. The responsibility of all errors or blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who have narrated these stories to me.” Tabari’s Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) popularly called “Mother of All Histories” is the first ever “History of Islam” written by ‘Imam’ Tabari (839-923 CE) at the junction of the third and fourth century AH. He died in 310 AH. [Preface of Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) by Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari.]

Ahmed Bin Hanbal says:Three kinds of books are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (The exalted Prophet’s Battles, Dreams and Prophecies, and Expositions of the Qur’an). [Ahmed Bin Hanbal as quoted by ibn Rajab al-Hanbali in Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabila (Appendage to the Encyclopedia of Hanbali Scholars)]

Hafiz Ibn Kathir says: Had Ibn Jareer Tabari not recorded the strange reports, I would never have done so. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer (Commentary on Quran) and Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya (History - From Start to End)]

Ibn Khaldun says: The Muslim historians have made a mockery of history by filling it with fabrications and senseless lies. (Muqaddama Ibn Khaldun)

Shah Abdul Aziz Dehelvi says: Six pages of Ibn Khaldoon’s History have been deliberately removed since the earliest times. These pages had questioned the most critical juncture of Islamic history i.e. the Emirate of Yazeed and the fiction of Karbala. [Even the modern editions admit in the side-notes that those pages have been mysteriously missing from the ancient original book. [Tohfa Ithna Ashri by Shah Abdul Aziz Dehelvi]

Shah Waliullah Dehelvi says: Imam Jalaluddin Sayyuti’s Tarikh-ul-Khulafa is the prime example of how our Historians, Muhaddithin and Mufassirin, each has played like Haatib-il-Lail (One who collects firewood at night not knowing which piece is good and which one is bad). [Izalatul Khifa A'N Khilaafatil Khulafaa by Shah Waliullah]

Example is as under:

“QUOTE”

Muhammad ibn Ishaq ibn Yasar [Birth:85 AH 704 CE Death: 150-153 AH (767)]

The earliest is Ibn Ishaq’s Sira, his biography of the Prophet. It is also the longest and the most widely quoted. Later historians draw, and in most cases depend on him. [Uyun al-athar, I, 7, Ibn Sayyid al-Nas (d. 734A.H.)

A contemporary of Ibn Ishaq, Imam Malik [d 179 AH], the jurist, denounces Ibn Ishaq outright as “a liar” and “an impostor” just for transmitting such stories. [`Uyun al-athar, I and ibid, I, 16].

It must be remembered that historians and authors of the Prophet’s biography did not apply the strict rules of the “traditionists”. They did not always provide a chain of authorities, each of whom had to be verified as trustworthy and as certain or likely to have transmitted his report directly from his informant, and so on. The attitude towards biographical details and towards the early events of Islam was far less meticulous than their attitude to the Prophet’s traditions, or indeed to any material relevant to jurisprudence. The attitude of scholars and historians to Ibn lshaq’s version of the stories has been either one of complacency, sometimes mingled with uncertainty, or at least in two important cases, one of condemnatlon and outright rejection.

The complacent attitude is one of accepting the biography of the Prophet and the stories of the campaigns at they were received by later generations without the meticulous care or the application of the critical criteria which collectors of traditions or jurists employed. It was not necessary to check the veracity of authorities when transmitting or recording parts of the story of the Prophet’s life.[Ibn Sayyid al-Nas (op. cit., I, 121)]

It was not essential to provide a continuous chain of authorities or even to give authorities at all. That is obvious in Ibn Ishaq’s Sira. On the other hand reliable authority and a continuous line of transmission were essential when law was the issue. That is why Malik the jurist had no regard for Ibn Ishaq. [Kadhdhab and Dajjal min al-dajajila - Liar and Liar amongst Liars]

His contemporary, the early traditionist and jurist Malik, called him unequivocally “a liar” and “an impostor”[Kadhdhab and Dajjal min al-dajajila - Liar and Liar amongst Liars] “who transmits his stories from the Jews”.[`Uyun al-athar, I, 16-7 by Ibn Sayyid al-Nas].

In a later age Ibn Hajar Asqalani further explained the point of Malik’s condemnation of Ibn Ishaq. Malik, he said,[Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, IX, 45. See also `Uyun al-athar, I, 16-7] condemned Ibn Ishaq because he made a point of seeking out descendants of the Jews of Medina in order to obtain from them accounts of the Prophet’s campaigns as handed down by their forefathers. [ibid.]

Comment by Danial Burki on April 4, 2009 @ 9:11 pm

This space is for comments, everyone. Instead of copy/pasting entire chapters and cluttering the entire page, please provide a link. I’m sure the mods would agree.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 4, 2009 @ 9:18 pm

Dear Burki Sahab,

Sorry for this. I hope Moderators would retain the links above and remove the text. Pardon again.

I only tried to remove the Islamic Itch from some commentators.

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

Amina thnx for the link. But no I dont wanna read ur religion of peace and turn myself into a monster, giving away each logic and reason and agreeing that every damm think tht happens, from shi*ting to fu*king is a per gods will!! I have read enough things abt Islam from ur Quran to give me a clear picture of barbarism! No religion is perfect. But ppl of other religion have guts to rectify them and not follow something so outdated and barbaric blindly to be clones! So Ms Amina, I am not spewing venom. I just said 2 truths which are well known about ur prophet. If u think thts venom then well thts ur religion! I posted same thing twice but no liberal Muslim had the guts to say tht wht prophet did was wrong! Become barbaric clones, bomb each other out, but plz let other ppl live in peace! God save us from Islam and its peace!

Comment by hussain on April 4, 2009 @ 10:13 pm

Ajay Mishra,

Well go back and worship rats and monkeys and sprinkle some cow urine on your food, if thats what you call a religion.

Go ahead, plz indulge yourself. Let Pakistanis alone. THNX.

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 4, 2009 @ 10:15 pm

And Amina, I opposed or questioned ur religion once or twice and u said go spew ur venom somewhere else. Well it goes according to Pak doesnt it? No FREEDOM OF SPEECH. U r not free to interpret religion or question it! Haa all the claims of Islam being tolerant down the gutter. Its not ur fault. U have been taught to blindly follow something for years. What else can u do.

Comment by noman on April 4, 2009 @ 10:36 pm

jawaad

you are very gud at avoiding the issue by abusing people directly or indirectly. i very well know you dont have any answers. you basically dont respect anybody opinion.be it imam kaba, ghamidi, maulana israr.

you can only worship criminals who hide behind burqas and spread terror by use of guns.

as far as prositutes are concerned lal masjid ya mullah brigade hi unki talash mai rehti hai .na milay tou kisi ko bhi pros kehdo…wats a big deal. madrissas are not respected coz of filth like you.

lolz

Comment by noman on April 4, 2009 @ 10:39 pm

fahad murtaza .

copy paste where i have called names….molvi who wear burqa is a burqa molvi…is it my fault?

dr jawad is in habit of abusing.u pinpoint my replies in which i abused him back….

so better read carefully

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 10:47 pm

Dear Ajay,

I’ll answer your second post first, you questioned my religion and I provided you with links to read up on Islam. Didn’t I? You said, you were not interested in reading up on my religion, well, fine by me! If you don’t want facts obscuring your opinions, so be it!

As for my suggestion to ’spew venom’ somewhere else, well it was in response to the degradation of an entire religion and dehumanization of nearly a fifth of the world’s entire population, that you seem so adept at! If that’s not spewing venom, I don’t know what it is! And excuse me, you are merely repeating a favorite phrase of all Islamophobes, i.e, Muslims are not allowed to question their religion. Did you even follow our discussion from above? We all were arguing over the implementation of Sharia, a set of Islamic laws and I was actually questioning it. But as I said earlier, plz don’t let facts obscure your opinions, and it seems to me you never will! lastly, your name suggests you might be a Hindu and you certainly seem to hail from India. Well, I’m not going to abuse whatever religion you follow, if any, but a word about India! Well India receives nearly hundreds of thousands of visitors from around the world who are keen to pay homage to the Taj, a MUSLIM legacy. That’s right! numerous other MUSLIM landmarks, erected by MUSLIM kings receive as many, if not more visitors. Well, blow them apart all sir, if you hate Muslims so much. And be sure to shoot your recent Oscar winner A R Rahman as well, because he is a committed Sufi Muslim! And countless other leading celebs of India.

Finally, I have some friends in India, whose views are completely different, not to mention more ‘humanistic’ than yours! My university hosted the first Annual Pakistan-India drama festival and all Indian delegates loved being in Pakistan. And we loved hosting them over. So I won’t hold your views against all Indians, because I have more sense than that, and I don’t believe in having genocidal fantasies about an entire nation and followers of any religion. Thanks and peace be upon you, as you are so fond of saying yourself!

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 10:47 pm

Do you people even realize why we are here? Does abusing each other and discussing religions gonna make any difference. Improve yourself. Don’t say wrong words to Hindus or Christians. You don’t even have right to discuss anyone. If you people were somewhere out of Pakistan, you could even get sued by the person you get personal with. But even if you live in a place like Pakistan where there are no human rights, you still should improve yourselves and compliment eachothers.

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 10:48 pm

Do you people even realize why we are here? Does abusing each other and discussing religions gonna make any difference. Improve yourself. Don’t say wrong words to Hindus or Christians. You don’t even have right to discuss anyone. If you people were somewhere out of Pakistan, you could even get sued by the person you get personal with. But even if you live in a place like Pakistan where there are no human rights, you still should improve yourselves and compliment each others.

Comment by Amina Wasif on April 4, 2009 @ 11:08 pm

@ Fahd:
“But even if you live in a place like Pakistan where there are no human rights, you still should improve yourselves and compliment each others.”

…my point exactly!

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 11:33 pm

Yes Amina

What I am trying to say is, you have a chance of improvement. We should realize whats wrong and whats right. Instead of pointing just to others, we should always think how we can take part in bringing the change. Just realizing whats wrong is important is a great thing; even if you can’t do anything about wrong doers. Though it would be the lowest level of Iman!

Comment by Ajmal Khan on April 4, 2009 @ 11:45 pm

It’s all happening! Allah forbid but it’s already all happening. There were no suicide bombings before 9/11 there was no conception of moderates and extremists. Who’s drawing these lines? Separatist movement in Baluchistan is on the rise. The northern areas have already become destabilized. ISI bashing and the notion of nuclear assets being unsafe is on the rise. Pakistan is on the verge of foreign subjugation. It’s all a setup someone clearly has an agenda. The new world order is fast approaching. Atheist and agnostic people need not to worry coz true Muslims are the ones who would suffer. Muslims of Pakistan need to strengthen their already weakened faith because this is a time of test from Allah. Do not lose your faith it will soon be put on trail.
Take a look at this article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7705

Comment by Amina on April 4, 2009 @ 11:49 pm

Well Fahd, I guess we all know what’s wrong with our country and that’s why we are here, to discuss it. If you are referring to my earlier arguments with Ajay Mishra, well he seemed determined to have his way in this thread, so I simply suggested a list of things he might want to pay attention to!But you’re right, probably this isn’t worth our while. I too would gladly discuss what’s wrong with my country with my fellow countrymen instead of people who only say negative things about Pakistan because their media does such a splendid job of filtering all the negative things from Pakistan without ever mentioning the positive ones!

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 4, 2009 @ 11:55 pm

Well

Ten first of all, we should boycott GEO as it does this great job. I never let my parents and my sisters watch this stupid channel which has only one aim; to highlight THE PROBLEMATIC PAKISTAN. i personally know so many of Americans are useless piece of sh..t but they are not treated like crao by their people. People always tend to help them improve. We need to think in that way. Solving problems in something not discussing them. Its just like, “Billi Ke Gale main ghanto bandhe gaa kon?”

Comment by Faiza Saeed on April 4, 2009 @ 11:58 pm

Do you guys know who broke this news on media? Ms. Meher Bokhari of Samaa Tv, on her show nai rahain, spoke to Haji Muslim Khan (ttp) as well as ameer izzat (tnsm)… the best shows accross media covering the entire issue before anyone else even noticed, plus on thr rights of women…
i think she is delivering her shows on blog http://meher.tv/

Comment by Dr. Amjad on April 5, 2009 @ 12:00 am

People talking of image problems but we have to come out of denial. Face this music. I dont see it as disservice, i see it as bold and strong and Meher Bokhari raising voice of so many helpless women. Geo overdoes it.

Comment by Amina Wasif on April 5, 2009 @ 12:03 am

Fahd, Geo isn’t ‘that’ bad. Well I was talking about foreign media, not Pakistani media. As Pakistan’s spokespersons, our media has a role to highlight the problems of our country, personally I find Geo much more balanced than other channels but if you find it otherwise…

I was talking about the wonderfully skewed coverage of FOX, CNN and Sky. BBC occasionally does an ok job, only Al Jazeera English gives a very balanced coverage.

Btw, in America also, there is a group of delusional wingnuts who routinely appear on Fox and I’ve visited brilliant websites entirely dedicated to exposing these neocons, such as
http://www.sadlyno.com

Comment by Fahd Murtaza on April 5, 2009 @ 12:06 am

Amina

GEO is very bad. Its just that we dont even realize how they are doing it. Watch carefully. Did they ever highlighted productive stuff thats going on. Though I like their Umeed-i-Sehr sort of stuff but they are all spreading sugar coated suff.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 12:07 am

It’s all happening! Allah forbid but it’s already all happening. [Ajmal Khan]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7705

========================

Dear Ajmal Sahab,

It was predicted in the early eighties and even much before just after the partition by a Late. Abul Kalam Azad [a Great Scholar of the Sub-Continent] that Pakistan will break up in 25 years and it did happen in 1971 while everybody repeat the prediction of doomsday scenario for Pakistan but Pakistanis never discuss as to why this happened??? and we are least bothered particularly those who want to break Pakistan up that Volatile Pakistan is very dangerous for the region. Remember the Europe before the First World War and remember Bosnia, Rwanda .etc.etc . I am least bothered about the breakup but what concerns me the most is the LOSS OF INNOCENT LIVES which is the hallmark of any breakup

“QUOTE”

Excerpts from a Diplomatic Gathering in 80s

“”The Soviet Foreign Minister, Gromyko, speaking in New Delhi on February 12, 1980 had warned that, “If Pakistan continues to serve as a puppet of imperialism in the future; it will jeopardize its existence and its integrity as an independent state.” The United States, too, could in certain circumstances accept the dismemberment of Pakistan as it did in 1971. Henry Kissinger, the US Secretary of State during President Nixon’s administration, had said: “In my conversation with Ambassador Jha I reiterated my constant theme that we considered Indian and American long term interests as congruent …. I emphasized that the United States did not insist that East Bengal remain part of Pakistan. On the contrary, we accepted autonomy as inevitable and independence as possible. A war was senseless; Bangladesh would come into being by the spring of 1972 if present procedures were given a chance. We differed over method, not aim.”On October 7, I told WSAG meeting that if India would accept an evolutionary process, it would achieve most of its objectives with our assistance. If they would co-operate with us we could work out 90 per cent of their problems, like releasing Mujib or attaining some degree of autonomy for Bangladesh, and these steps would lead eventually to their getting it all.” With the return of a Republican administration and keeping United States global interests in mind, it would be prudent to assume that should the US interests in the future be better served by sacrificing Pakistan or a part of it, Henry Kissinger’s successors would not hesitate to do so. Pakistan must, therefore, strive to keep itself together by weakening those forces that are pulling it apart and this cannot be done by force of arms. The use of strong arm methods has shown that the situation did not, to say the least, improve.”

“UNQUOTE”

A renowned Writer Robert D Kaplan had predicted in Mid and Late 90s that several countries are not going to survive and India and Pakistan are amongst those countries. Such theories are launched off and on by the power that be [The USA, IMF and WORLD BANK]to prepare the children of the lesser god for more miseries.

Read the articles of Robert D Kaplan on Baluchistan and India.

Dr Abul Maali Syed’s book The Twin era of Pakistan:

Democracy and Dictatorship. Written in 1992, the book predicts an independent Balochistan in 2006. Dr Syed begins his book by saying ‘Who would have believed that Balochistan, once the least populated and poorest province of Pakistan, would become independent and the third richest oil-producing country after Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.’ This may not be a serious venture, but it should be nevertheless worrying especially if one reads it along with the US National Intelligence Committee that spoke of Pakistan as a failed State in 2015.

The Lawless Frontier By Robert D. Kaplan Atlantic Monthly September, 2000

Baluchistan

This past April in Quetta, the bleached-gray, drought-stricken capital of the Pakistani border province of Baluchistan, I awoke to explosions and gunfire. In search of the violence, my translator, Jamil, and I jumped into a four-wheel-drive Toyota and raced through the section of town inhabited by Pashtoon tribesmen. Suddenly we were surrounded by Pakistani soldiers, who forced us out of the car and pointed assault rifles in our faces. While they searched us, I saw two other soldiers with automatic weapons run along a high wall a few feet from where we stood. Shots rang out from inside the adjacent compound. By 11:00 a.m. five people had been killed and twenty wounded, and a large cache of weapons had been confiscated in a raid on the Pashtoonkhwa Milli Awami (Pashtoon National People’s Party), a group supporting an Independent “Pashtoonistan” created out of Pakistani territory. The party stood accused of murders and kidnapping. Security forces claimed victory, but reports later circulated that party members had filtered back into the area with weapons.

THE COMING ANARCHY by Robert D. Kaplan

How scarcity, crime, overpopulation, tribalism, and disease are rapidly destroying the social fabric of our planet

The Atlantic Monthly, February 1994

Pakistan’s problem is more basic still: like much of Africa, the country makes no geographic or demographic sense. It was founded as a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent, yet there are more subcontinental Muslims outside Pakistan than within it. Like Yugoslavia, Pakistan is a patchwork of ethnic groups, increasingly in violent conflict with one another. While the Western media gushes over the fact that the country has a woman Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, Karachi is becoming a subcontinental version of Lagos.

In eight visits to Pakistan, I have never gotten a sense of a cohesive national identity. With as much as 65 percent of its land dependent on intensive irrigation, with wide-scale deforestation, and with a yearly population growth of 2.7 percent (which ensures that the amount of cultivated land per rural inhabitant will plummet), Pakistan is becoming a more and more desperate place. As irrigation in the Indus River basin intensifies to serve two growing populations, Muslim-Hindu strife over falling water tables may be unavoidable.

“India and Pakistan will probably fall apart,” Homer-Dixon predicts. “Their secular governments have less and less legitimacy as well as less management ability over people and resources.” Rather than one bold line dividing the subcontinent into two parts, the future will likely see a lot of thinner lines and smaller parts, with the ethnic entities of Pakhtunistan and Punjab gradually replacing Pakistan in the space between the Central Asian plateau and the heart of the subcontinent. None of this even takes into account climatic change, which, if it occurs in the next century, will further erode the capacity of existing states to cope. India, for instance, receives 70 percent of its precipitation from the monsoon cycle, which planetary warming could disrupt.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 12:13 am

Do you guys know who broke this news on media? Ms. Meher Bokhari of Samaa Tv,[Faiza Saeed]
=======================

Dear Ms. Faiza,

I thinks its Samar Minallah [Restore the Judiciary Movement]

Flogging in Swat outrages nation: Video captures girl’s agony Dawn Report Saturday, 04 Apr, 2009 04:00 AM PST

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/flogging-in-swat-outrages-nation-video-captures-girls-agony

Speaking at a press conference in Swat, provincial Minister Iftikhar Hussain said the incident had taken place on Jan 3, 45 days before the signing of the peace agreement.

He alleged that an NGO activist, Samar Minallah, had released the video as part of a conspiracy. He said her brother had been a provincial minister in the government of Gen Pervez Musharraf. “Where were these people when innocents were being slaughtered and bodies were pulled out of graves.”

Comment by Amina Wasif on April 5, 2009 @ 1:06 am

Well that makes perfect sense in a way! Ms Samar Minallah is an extremely brave, conscientious woman who exposed a pervert minister on Geo tv. It must be her, she is always raising her voice against the injustices meted out to the people of tribal regions. Kudos to her!

Comment by hussain on April 5, 2009 @ 2:09 am

@blog,

Kudos, I liked your response:

Comment by blog on April 4, 2009 @ 11:23 am

@noman

Who are these guys?

May be taliban from swat area

Who gave them the right to dispense so called justice?

talbian have been running a defacto govt in swat for sometime now, these things happen when state fails to fulfill its responsibilities and fails to provide justice to people . the same question can be also be asked about our current judicial system ? who gave them the right to dispense punishments based on English law ? did anyone ask us if we want sharia law or a messed up version of english law ?

How do u know that the girl committed adultery?

How do you know that girl did not commit zina?

If so what about that man who was with her?

may be he was also punished but we won’t see that video as it wont sell well with the media

Where are the 4 witness?

again we don’t know if there were witnesses or not, so we should not reach to conclusions without knowing the details

Comment by blog on April 5, 2009 @ 2:31 am

Comment by Faiza Saeed on April 4, 2009 @ 11:58 pm

Do you guys know who broke this news on media? Ms. Meher Bokhari of Samaa Tv, on her show nai rahain, spoke to Haji Muslim Khan (ttp) as well as ameer izzat (tnsm)… the best shows accross media covering the entire issue before anyone else even noticed, plus on thr rights of women… i think she is delivering her show”

Was that an advertisement for Ms Meher Bokhari?

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 2:43 am

@ rashid mughal “I only tried to remove the Islamic Itch from some commentators” “Islamic itch”……well dear I assure you that have some genetic Islamic problem which can not be relieved by copy/paste crap. The problem is only that you know who I am while I do not know who you REALLY are which make me stand vulnerable of these kinds of “removing islamic itch” type attcks. for you it is just a copy/paste but for me answering these question is a real headache. But I can’t quit Because this is do or die type game. My answer will be in series as soon as I get the answer I shall write as I see fit.

OBJECTION NO - 1

“Khilafat o malookiyat” was the book on specific golden Islamic era and tried to answer that how a noble khalafat a rashida turned into malookiyat.and what facts mentioned in this book is proven historical fact.author just tried to portray the real picture of that time with out personal attack?

Are we interested in the answer of the question that what turned glorified khilafat e rashida into kingship. Are we interested in right answer? Then let the right answer come. What is the point hiding the truth. Molana syed abul aala modudi just reflected the history with out personal attacks. I think that he did a great job. Where is the blasphemy in it? How a truth can be a blasphemy.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 3:09 am

OBJECTION NO -6

Regarding objection hazrat younus (pbuh) first you must know what was the text use in Quran e Kareem regarding Hazrat Younus (asw)

“Why was there not a single township (among those We warned), which believed - so its Faith should have profited it - except the People of Yunus? When they believed, We removed from them the Penalty of Ignominy in the life of the Present, and permitted them to enjoy (their life) for a while.” (sura younus-98)

“And remember Zul-nun, when he departed in wrath: he imagined that We had no power over him! But he cried through the depths of darkness, “There is no god but Thou: glory to Thee: I was indeed wrong!” (sura al anbiyah-87)

So also was Yunus among those sent (by Us). When he ran away (like a slave from captivity) to the ship (fully) laden, He (agreed to) cast lots, and he was condemned: Then the big Fish did swallow him, and he had done acts worthy of blame. Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified Allah, He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection But We cast him forth on the naked shore in a state of sickness,(sura as saafat – 139-145)

So wait with patience for the Command of thy Lord, and be not like the Companion of the Fish, when he cried out in agony. Had not Grace from His Lord reached him, he would indeed have been cast off on the naked shore, in disgrace. (sura alqalam -48/49)

These verses clearly indicating that Hazrat Younus (asw) made a mistake and Allah(swt) actually did not like that mistake.that is why He mentioned in Quran.

Now einstien tell me what should a muffasir do when he goes for the translation and explanation of these verses.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 3:44 am

Now einstien tell me what should a muffasir do when he goes for the translation and explanation of these verses.Where is the blasphemy in it? How a truth can be a blasphemy. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

My name is Muhammad Aamir Mughal not Rashid Mughal.

In one of your early posts you had praised Deobandi Scholars and had you been gone through my post on Mawdudi by clicking the link then you would have known it was Maulana Yousuf Ludhyanvi whom I have quoted on Mawdudi so please give that Title of Einstein to your favourite Deobandi Maulvis.

My name is Muhammad Aamir Mughal not Rashid Mughal.

Hazrat Uthman and Hazrat Muawiya [May Allah be pleased with of them] were Companions of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and Mawdudi had narrated lies after lies and insult after insult by quoting the most rampantly Liar NARRATORS IN TABARI i.e. Waqidi, Kalbi, and Abhu Mikhnaf. Any reference of History will be rejected and refuted if that narration would in any way raise finger on the Companions of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and Mawdudi collected all such references from History books [read lies] to condemn Hazrat Uthman and Hazrat Ameer Muawiyah and that is my Dear Sir, is Blasphemy. I have at least 40 posts on Mawdudi and Khomeini on my blog and you can check the details of this debate. I dont want to discuss this issue on this thread because I would give details and this blog wouldn’t allow that. You are more than to leave your comment on my blog on Mawdudi and Khomeini posts and By Allah I will allow every single comment no matter how harsh.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 3:50 am

OBJECTION NO -8

It is clear from the “riwaya” of sahee bukharee and musnad e ahmed that Harat Umar(ra) used the word “la turajaee” which means that “do not use unapprpriate words” while talking to the RASOOL ULLAH(SAWW)

Tell me mr “itch remover”!

What we call when a person with lesser level retorts to the person with higher level? In urdu the translation of that word is the word Molana Syed abul aala modudi used. Tell me who has higher levels ? Nabi e Kareem(saw) or azdwaj e mutahirat(ra)? So! You have two options

1) you remove that incidents from the history and books of aahadeeth

2) you say loud and clear that azdawaj e mutahirrat(ra) should not have done that to Nabi e Kareem(saw)

also answer the following question.

1) why hazrat umar e farooq(ra) got angry with his daughter Ummul Momineed hazrat hafsa(ra). And later on he went to the house of every azdawaj e mutahirat(ra) and warned them about the wrath of Allah(swt)

2) why Nabee e Kareem isolated himself from azdwaj e mutahirat(ra) for 29 days?

3) Do you have any idea of the reason of descending the following verses:
“If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; but if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe, and furthermore, the angels will back (him) up. It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange Consorts better than you, who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, previously married or virgins.
(sura at tehreem – 4/5)

Do you really know what was the problem any way or you just copied a crap and posted it

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 3:56 am

OBJECTION NO -8 [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Read my above comment.

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 5, 2009 @ 4:06 am

@ Hussain,

Ha ha when did I say my religion is perfect? But we have the guts to stand up and say this is not right or not applicable in todays times and we should change it. For eg: Caste systems. U will find mostly Hindus opposing it and trying it eradicate it. I agree it is still largely practiced in rural areas. But the point is we stand up. Bcos Hinduism never says follow it to T. Its open to interpretation , modifications and u wont be killed if u oppose some part of it! Can any Muslim stand against any verse of Quran without being labelled Kafir or much worse being chopped? Hinduism accept all faith bcos it says all gods are one. I can go freely in church, mosque, gurudwara or synagogue without being labelled a Kafir. Gandhiji once said ” I am a Hindu, a Muslim, a Zorastrian, a Jew i equal measures” On that Jinnah said “Only a HINDU can say that”.
Even before the word secularism was coined, in Sanskrit there was a saying “Sarva Dharma Sambhav”. Entire Bharat was a land of Hindus in early days before other religion migrated to India. Hindus let them practice their religion thats how different religions came here. Can we accept tht in a Muslim country??? As for me, I dont believe in religions. Its a man made thing. I abide by the law of land. God has given me brain and a conscious to differentiate between right and wrong rather than following something something leading to barbaric acts and me becoming a clone. P.S Cow urine was extensively used in Ayurveda, the first medical system of our land. Ayurveda is finding more and more usage in west these days. Watch discovery channel for a change, u will find urine has some ammonia which is capable of healing wounds :) P.P.S: Even after this no Muslim will have the guts to say yes soemthings in Islam need to be changed b4 being stoned to death ofcourse!!

Comment by Ajay Mishra on April 5, 2009 @ 4:32 am

@ Amina, Taj Mahal was created by Mughals. There were no Muslims in India b4 Mughals. Go check ur ancestor tree, u will find Hindus there. Secondly wen are all proud of our Muslim leaders, actors, scientist acheivements. I never opposed a Muslim. I am questioning Islam. Is that so difficult to understand. Well in India we give equal rights to other religions as well. Thats the reason why every friday flocks of Hindus line up to see a film in which SRK is acting! See my earlier post. I have clearly mentioned we are free to respect other religions bcos our religion is open to interpretation and modification! Secondly I have also mentioned I dont follow any religion. Our president was a Muslim, our defense minster is a Christian. Well well can we expect that in the land of pure? or from religion of peace? Leave alone other religions u guys r busy fighting between shiyas and sunnis! So I dont need to remind u abt other communities like Ahmadis, hindus, sikhs etc. Forget religions. Even Muslim women does not have equal rights as clearly shown in this vid. I agree this is barbarism. But these acts of barbarism are committed in the name of Islam everywhere. Land does not matter. Be it UK, USA or Pak. These acts r committed. SO u cant say that land has any implications on it. Clearly Islam has influence on such acts as some of the barbaric acts are supported in Quran. If u say its not Islam, then why have no muslim taken to street in anywhere in the world to stop exploting Islam? Hell, ur own member doc supports it! So much for the religion of peace or piece..pheww

Comment by Amina Wasif on April 5, 2009 @ 4:39 am

@Ajay

Well, if you are on Facebook, I suggest you look me up there. I don’t want to discuss it any further in this thread as people get irritated.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 6:20 am

well well well!this incidence will provide a perfect opportunity to shed the crocodile tears.[Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Swat video is genuine, claim activists By Usman Manzoor Sunday, April 05, 2009

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21338

Samar Minallah, the human rights activist and documentary film-maker, while talking to The News said that the video was being circulated from mobile phone to mobile phone and from person to person. She said that she received the video via email from a human rights activist of Swat. Talking about the authenticity of the video Minallah said that everyone in Swat knows that the incident took place but unfortunately the NWFP government wants to divert the attention of the masses from the actual issue of harassment of women. She said that the facts and figures would be produced before the Supreme Court and everyone would come to know about the authenticity of the video.

“NWFP minister Mian Iftikhar directly named me while addressing a press conference yesterday while today the NWFP government has been apologising over directly blaming me”, said Samar Minallah adding: “I have got nothing from publicising this horrific video except putting my life in danger and if the government cannot provide me security then at least it should not divert the attention of the masses.”

She said that the dialect which the girl was speaking was purely of Swat as she herself has worked in Swat and any Pushtoon could recognise it. Samar said that Muslim Khan, the spokesman of Taliban in Swat, accepted that the incident took place and also told the media that the girl had an illicit relationship with her father-in-law. “If the incident did not take place then how come Muslim Khan came to know about the allegations levelled against the girl?”, said the human rights activist adding: “Muslim Khan said the actual punishment to be awarded to the girl was stoning to death but she was flogged.”

Comment by noman on April 5, 2009 @ 7:29 am

dactar jawad

praise for khifat o malukiat, was expected from you.maulana maudoodi wrote an utterly blasphemous book against the sahaba specifically usman (ra) and mawaiyah ( r a) the concept that khilafat turned into malukiat is patently false. you dare challenge the sahabas conduct and it would mean challenging the prophet (saw) and indeed Allah coz its said in Quran ( that Allah is razi with the sahaba) but you and molana modoodi will try to malign them in the name of history.the entire book is without any research references.most of his allegations are only supported by the words logon nai kaha.kon log? nobody knows….maudodi ko khab mai ayay thay. the prophet(saw) gave two daughters in marriage to usman r.a. mawiyah r.a was the son of abu sufian r.a whose house has been declared as darul aman.and mododi sahib blames malokiat on that house? indirectly he is accusing all the sahaba living at the time of mawiyah r.a as living in sin nowzubillah. but i can expect anything whon is the supporter of suicide bombing,who thinks that jihad is fighting women and hiding behind children and women.who thinks the best way to fight is running away in a burqa and abuse and lie.you are also trying to ignore imam e kaaba stance on lal masjid.

The book infact is based on mixing very little fact with a lot of fiction.modoodis imagination was at work just to please some segments of the society.nowzubillah how can one even think of criticizing the umhat ul momeenen or the sahaba.infact the book is just a satanic verses in urdu.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 9:28 am

mawiyah r.a was the son of abu sufian r.a whose house has been declared as darul aman.and mododi sahib blames malokiat on that house? [Noman]
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Thanks Noman Sahab,

May Allah bless you eternally, Amen.

Abdullah Bin Abbas (RA) once said: ” Leave Amir Muawiyah (RA) alone because he is a person who has enjoyed the Companionship of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). [Bukhari Chapter Companions of the Prophet]

Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika: Muawiya offered one Rak’a Witr prayer after the ‘Isha prayer, and at that time a freed slave of Ibn ‘Abbas was present. He (i.e. the slave) went to Ibn ‘Abbas (and told him that Muawiya offered one Rak’a Witr prayer). Ibn Abbas said, “Leave him, for he was in the company of Allah’s Apostle.” [Sahih Bukhari Chapter Companions of the Prophet]

Muawiyah - Malook - Dictatator as per Mawdudi but read the Hadith:

Abi Mujliz reported: “Muawiyah went to Abdullah ibn Zubayr and Abi Amir, when he reached there abi amir stood up out of respect to muawiya whereas abdulla ibn zubayr remained sitting. Muawiya then said to abi Amir:”sit down for i have heard the Apostle of Allah(saw) saying:”that person who likes to see others stand up for him, then let him occupy his seat in hell fire.”[Sunan Abu Dawoud]

‘Umar ibn al-Khattab said, “Do not mention Mu’awiyah with anything but good. I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, ‘O Allah, guide him!’” [Mishkatul Misabeeh]

The Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] said, “Oh Allah, make him [Mu’awiyah] a guide, guided, and guide people through him.” [Al-Tirmidhi and Mishkat Al-Masabeeh]

Muáwiya (May Allah be pleased with him) was even privileged to be the brother-in-law of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] since Umme Habiba (May Allah be pleased with her), the sister of Muáwiya, was one of his [PBUH]’s wives. Once Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] came home to find Muáwiya (May Allah be pleased with him) with his sister. He asked her whether she loved him. To this Umme Habiba (May Allah be pleased with her) declared that he was her brother and therefore she definitely loved him. It was then that Muáwiya (May Allah be pleased with him) received tremendous glad tidings from Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] , where he said, ‘Allah and His Rasul definitely love Muáwiya.’ (Tabrani).

In another prayer for Mu’awiyah the Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] said: “My Lord, teach him the Book (i.e. the Qur’an) and arithmetic, and protect him against suffering.” (Related by Al-Bukhari in his Al-Tareekh).

Such was the love Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had for him that he was given the following beautiful and concise Dua by Nabi : ‘O Allah! make Muáwiya (May Allah be pleased with him) a means of hidaayat and make him one who is himself on hidaayat and give people hidaayat through him.’ (Majmaú Zawaaid)

Prophet Mohammad {PBUH] made Dua for the knowledge of Muáwiya (May Allah be pleased with him) where he said, ‘O Allah endow Muáwiya with the special knowledge of the Qurân and save him from punishment.’ (Musnad Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal).

Muawiyah was Dictator as per Mawdudi but as per Hadith he was Kaatib-e-Wahi [Scribe of Prophet Mohammad - PBUH]

From Ibn Abbas: “Abu Sufyan said to the Prophet : Give me three. He said: Yes.” In that hadith it says: “And Muawiya! Let him to be a scribe in your presence. He said: Yes” – [Muslim]

Ibn Asaker said: “ The most authentic tradition narrated about Mauwiya’s merit is the hadith of Abu Jamrah from Ibn Abbas that he was the scribe of the Prophet ” – related by Ibn Katheer in Al-Bidaya wal Nihaya.

And Mawdudi violated the following Hadiths by quoting Liars Narrators of Tabari [By the way Salman Rushdie in Satanic Verse had also quoted Abu Mikhnaf, Waqidi and Kalbi and same are quoted by Mawdudi in his Filth called Khilafat O Malookiyat]

1- The Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] said : “The best of my nation is my generation then those who follow them and then those who follow them.” [Saheeh Bukhari]

2- And he also said, “Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that” [Bukhaaree and Muslim].

3- Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] advised us: “When my Companions are mentioned then withhold” [Saheeh, at-Tabaranee] .

4- Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] said, “Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the angels and all the people” [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee] .

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

OBJECTION -5

Is a perfect example of purgery. I asked you before that please do not behave like “sawa panch rupey wala halwaee” The refrence was quoted out of the context. The discussion was just that it is appropriate for Nabi (sws) to actually work as subordinate of a kafir. The right word is just that: “he (hazrat yousuf (pbuh) demanded a full authority and he(pbuh) got the full authority”
And his(pbuh) action was approved by Quran e Kareem in following words:

“(Yusuf) said: “Set me over the store-houses of the land: I will indeed guard them, as one that knows (their importance).” Thus did we give established power to Yusuf in the land, to take possession therein as, when, or where he pleased. We bestow of Our mercy on whom We please, and We suffer not, to be lost, the reward of those who do good” (sura yousuf – 55/56)

So the question arises where molana modudi used the words like dictator or missoulini or Hitler for hazrat yousuf(pbuh) ? I have tafheemat in front of me and after twice reading of that particular chapter I couldn’t get those words.

THE DISCUSSION WAS JUST THAT WHETHER IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR A NABI(PBUH) TO WORK AS A SUBORDINATE OF A KAFIR.

Now! Don’t you think that you have gone too far in “removing the Islamic itch”? Bohtan tarazi ki bhee koee had hotee hey

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

OBJECTION NO -4

It took an hour to search the tafseer about hazrat nouh(pbuh) .because one of my friend took the tafheem ul quran part 2. Before replying this objection I want to quote what quran said about that particular incident:

And Nuh called upon his Lord, and said; “O my Lord! Surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the Justest of Judges!” He said: “O Nuh! he is not of thy family: for his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!” Nuh said: “O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge. And unless Thou forgive me, and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!” (sura hood -45/47)

Now back to the tafseer molana modudi explained the action this way: “ by reading those aayat no one should think that there was some lack of iman in hazrat nouh(pbuh) or his iman was mixed up with the ignorance(as words used in the aayat) actually all nabi(pbuh) are human beings and it is not possible for a human being to be in the state of highest level of the eiman set by ALLAH(swt) “ALL THE TIME” Sometimes a delicate and natural occasions arises for a Nabi {Prophet}, even such lofty and honoured humans are prone to give in to their human weaknesses”

After that deliberately and cunningly you skipped the part of his tafseer, which is as follow:

“But whenever He(nabi) realizes or make realized by ALLAH(swt) that he is coming down from the standards set by ALLAH(swt) , nabi(pbuh) repents without wasting a second and correct his weakness. What can be the biggest proof of the greatness and highness of hazrat nouh (asw) that his own son was drowning if front of him. He was suffering a great loss as a father even though when warned by ALLAH(swt) that the son who was left the Haqq {Faith} and took to Baatil {Infidelity}, understand him to be yours purely for this reason that he was born from your back. It was the result of ignorance. He then immediately disregarded this wound in his heart which was the demand of islam.

Well ! its again the time for some question to be answered. Carefully read the text as mentioned in Quran and read the explanation given by molana modudi, tell me whether he is defending the exaltness and highness of the prophet or he was doing some ”blasphemy”? Why there is picking some sentences and skipping other sentences? Isn’t that we can call a “fraud ” with the valuable work of the most eminent scholar of the 20th century ? jus to give a bad name? Be a gentleman rather “itch remover”

Comment by Bee on April 5, 2009 @ 3:33 pm

Unfortunately, the Islam that we currently know considers these actions as “acceptable”. so how come we call these flogging incidents un-islamic? Forget ranting about what Islam was when it originated, accept what islam IS now.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 3:35 pm

@Aamir mughal! isn’t that funny that a person attcks on the others faith,using fraud as a weapon ranting too much about islam in the gauise of the defender of ASMAT E ANBIYAH(sws) and AZMAT E SAHABA(ra),attributes his blog name after the name of a kafir(chughtai khan) a worst enemy of the muslims.

why is that? is it because your ridiculous racial pride is bigger than your religion?

Comment by Natasha Latiff on April 5, 2009 @ 5:11 pm

I wrote this on my blog: Flogging and illicit relations under Shariah Law.

See natashalatiff.wordpress.com

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 5:21 pm

OBJECTION NO -3 Before answering the objection I want to quote the aayat and sahee ahadith regarding one particular incident.

When they entered the presence of Dawud, and he was terrified of them, they said: “Fear not: we are two disputants, one of whom has wronged the other: decide now between us with Truth, and treat us not with injustice, but guide us to the even Path. “This man is my brother: he has nine and ninety ewes, and I have (but) one: yet he says, `Commit her to my care,’ and is (moreover) harsh to me in speech “This man is my brother: he has nine and ninety ewes, and I have (but) one: yet he says, `Commit her to my care,’ and is (moreover) harsh to me in speech.”
(Dawud) said: “He has undoubtedly wronged thee in demanding thy (single) ewe to be added to his (flock of) ewes; truly many are the Partners (in business) who wrong each other: not so do those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and how few are they?” And Dawud gathered that We had tried him: he asked Forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned (to Allah in repentance). (surah suad/ 22-24)

According to imam abu hanifa the prostration is due at this place. Imam shafai do not saying that it not due because it is a repentance of the nabi(pbuh) There are three narrations from ibn e abbas by mohadithin. Akruma narrated that according to the ibn e abbas: “these are not the verses where prostration of recitation is obligatory but I saw nabi e kareem(saww) prostrating at this place.(bukhari, abu daud, tirmizi ,nasai, musnad e ahmed Saeed bin juber narrated that nabi e karim(saww) prostrated in surah suad and said “daud(asw) prostrated in repentance we prostrate in thankfulness.(because ALLAH(SWT) accepted his(daud) repentance.similar matter was quoted from mujahid.

Looking the Quranic text and the ahadith e mubarika one can clearly see that hazrat daud (asw) did made a mistake.

Now question arises that are you mature enough to ask about some details and explanations of that particular mistake or you want to move blindfolded from this point? How can a muffasir can move from this point with out meeting those questions? What will be your answer When a sincere and naive muslim read this Quranic text and ask you the question why hazrat daud (asw) repented ? Do you really know what ulema e salf wrote about that? Do you really know what Allama abu baker jasas , masrooq and saeed bin jubair,ibn e jareer, Qazi abu bakr ibn alarabi wrote in explaining these aayat?

Then why only molana modudi ? Is it because molana modudi is an easy target? Or because you haven’t balls to criticize on ibn e jareer or qazi abu bakr

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

I had just quoted [as per you Great Deobandi Scholar] Mawlana Yousuf Ludhiyanvi who in his book had 17 Chapters on Mawdudi’s Blasphemic Comments for the Prophet [PBUT] and Companions of the Prophets [May Allah be pleased with everyone of them] and Yousuf Ludhiyanvi, Yousuf Binnori, Abdul Majid Daryabadi had written volumes to refute Mawdudi so challenge these Deobandi Giant Ulema [as per your post not me] I have just quoted Mullhas on a Mullah.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 6:31 pm

thats hilarious! well!i have a small piece of advice.do not attack some one with no good,old,rusted gun.because it may explode and you may injure yourself. even though some of deo bandi ulema tried to smear a great scholar, a mujtahid and reformer, i have a respect for ulema e deoband. because they have a very out standing role in the history of sub continent.

Comment by Danial Burki on April 5, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

“Outstanding”? Their brand of Islam has destroyed the fabric of Pakistani society.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 6:52 pm

Ulema e deoband did a great job for islam.please do not redicule them on the basis of wrong doing of few illiterate fanatics. [Dr Jawwad Khan]

even though some of deo bandi ulema tried to smear a great scholar, a mujtahid and reformer, i have a respect for ulema e deoband. because they have a very out standing role in the history of sub continent. [dr.jawwad khan]

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

These are not some Deobandi Ulema:

1 - Maulana Yousuf Ludhiyanvi - Binnori Town refuted Mawdudi.

2 - Mawlana Yousuf Binnori - Founder of Binnori Town refuted Mawdudi

3 - Mawlana Abdul Majid Daryabadi pupil of Ashraf Ali Thanwi refuted Mawdudi.

You say you didn’t find any Blasphemic references in Mawdudi’s Tafheemat, I say go and get some books written by the above Deobandi Maulvis against Mawdudi because these Deobandi Maulvis have provided the References of that particular edition of Tafheemat wherein Mawdudi Calamity committed Blashphemy. In another thread you were very critical on Shia Community by the way Khomeini and Shia Scholars quoted Mawdudi on Hazrat Uthman and Hazrat Muawiya [May Allah be pleased with both of them]. If you dont believe me then you can check yourself.

Regarding Racial Pride and my Blog’ name:

Dear Jawwad Sahab kindly solve this mystrey of Polytheistic Name of Mawdudi.

Courtesy Dr Shabbir Ahmed

Before presenting some glimpses of the famous Mullah Maududi’s wisdom and knowledge, let us reflect on his full name and title, Maulana Syed Abul A’la Maududi. The name translates as: “Our Master, Owner, the Father of the Most Glorious, Maududi”. It is strange that the man claiming to be a great Islamic scholar lived 76 odd years with this name. Does it need much insight to see that the very name is shrieking outright divinity and Shirk? According to the Quran, Maulana (our Master) is none but Allah (9:51). And, obviously, Al-A’la (the Most Glorious) can be none but God.

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 9:50 pm

“polytheistic name of modudi” dude! this is on the top of all you said against molana syed abual aala modudi. and honestly i was not expecting from you. first abu. like many urdu speaking consider this having same meaning as “abbu”. which is not the case.abu in arabi is use for “wala” as in urdu.like many gujrati name you might heard the names like: javed sultan japan wala
ghulam mustufa bandooq wala adam bhai cement wala etc etc

as we see in many sahaba e kiram(ra) for example hazrat ali’s “kunniyat” was abu turrab. turrab means dirt. which is given by prophet mohammed (pbuh) when HE saw hazrat ali(ra) having a nap in the gaurden and dirt was accumulated on his clothes. and hazrat abu hurerah(ra) in arabi huraira means cat.the name was given to him(ra) because his love and care for the cats.

then aala. Aala arabi men “ullaiyya” se afa lul tafseel ka segha hey. Jis ke maani oonchai ke hen. Consider aala as “ilaha” is nothing but ignorance.

You said “courtesy dr shabbir ahmed” I say “jihalat” by halwaee shabbir ahmed

regarding the meaning of “moulana” by halwaee shabbir ahmed, give me his address i’ll personaly go there and kick his butt for such kind of jihalat

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 10:18 pm

You said “courtesy dr shabbir ahmed” I say “jihalat” by halwaee shabbir ahmed. regarding the meaning of “moulana” by halwaee shabbir ahmed,give me his address i’ll personaly go there and kick his butt for such kind of jihalat [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

There is a big difference Title of Abu Turab for Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] means Father of Dust, Abu Huraira [May Allah be pleased with him] means Father of Cat and Abul Ala means Father of Allah [May Allah forgive me for even repeating this]
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The link for Dr Shabbir Ahmed is as under:

Type the caption below with Ourbeacon in google search

December 7th, 2007

THE MULLAH-IN-CHIEF OF THE 20TH CENTURY: MAUDUDI (1903-1979)

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Ulema e deo band did a great job for islam.please do not redicule them on the basis of wrong doing of few illiterate fanatics. [Dr Jawwad Khan]

even though some of deo bandi ulema tried to smear a great scholar, a mujtahid and reformer, i have a respect for ulema e deoband. because they have a very out standing role in the history of sub continent. [dr.jawwad khan]

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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

There is book written “Khilafat wa Malookiyat Ki Tareekhi Aur Shariee Haisiyat [Authenticity and Relity of Caliphat and Kingdom by Mawdudui] by Hafiz Salahuddin Yousuf [Editor of Weekly Eitisaam, Lahore Pakistan , he is a Salafi Scholar and if you get that book then please note that in preface following Deobandi and even Barelvi Scholar praised the above book on the refutation ofr Mawdudi's Deviant and Blasphemic Beliefs regarding the Companions of Prophet Mohammad. You have already praised Deobandi Mullahs in one of your mail and following Mullahs [not ordinary Jahil Taliban] praised the book:

1 - Mufti Muhammad Shafi Usmani [Deobandi]

2 - Justice Taqi Usmani [Deobandi]

3 - Maulana Ziauddin Islahi [Daar ul Musanifeen Azam Garh India]

4 - Maulana Yousuf Ludhiyanvi [Binnori Town - Deobandi]

5 - Maulana Ghulamullah Khan [Rawalpindi - Deobandi]

6 - Dr Israr Ahmed [Former Deputy of Mawdudi]

7 - Maulana Amee Ahsan Islahi [Former number 2 of Mawdudi]

8 - Agha Shoorish Kashmiri [Noted Scholar and Journalist]

9 - Maulana Manzoor Naimani [One of the founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Deobandi scholar and also refuted Mawdudi in his book on Islamic Revolution of Iran]

10 - Safi ur Rahman Mubarakpuri [Author of Prophet Mohammad - PBUH's biography Ar Raheeq Al Makhtoom and he is an Indian Scholar and a Salafi]

11 - Yousuf Saleem Chishti [Deobandi Sufi Scholar]

12 - Maulana Abul Hasan Nadvi [Former Head of Darul Ulomm Deoband and Member Board of Medina University Saudi Arabia]

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

@amir mughal! why don’t you have research of your own rather quoting the research of others all thwe time. internet is the biggest gift of science to the mankind. but believe me there is no alternate of the books. you can not have that kind of absorption and indulgence on internet whih you get from the books. if there are some allegations against any author, it is better to read the original text before spreading those allegations. ulema e deoband might said some thing wrong about molana syed abul aala modudi but it doesn’t negate their services. take care and best of luck

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 10:38 pm

why don’t you have research of your own rather quoting the research of others all thwe time. internet is the biggest gift of science to the mankind. but believe me there is no alternate of the books. you can not have that kind of absorption and indulgence on internet whih you get from the books. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

Sir,

Check my post above I have quoted a book and have also quoted “Services of Deobandi Scholras on Refuting Mawdudi”

Comment by dr.jawwadkhan on April 5, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

thanks dear.i shall read inshaALLAH. but please do read the “khalafat o malookiyat”. then read any criticism you want. one last question! if the deoband ulema are not good(as you have said in previous posts then why you are emphacising so much on reading their books against molana syed abul aala modudi?

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 11:24 pm

Dear Jawwad Sahab,

I have Tafheemat and Khilafat o Malookiyat and books [Tabari, Tabaqat-e-Ibn-Saad, History by Ibn Khalqan, History by Ibn Khaldun, History by Ibn Kathir - Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya, History of Sahaba by Ibn Athir in my personal Library] through which Mawdudi concocted Tabbara [Read Khilafat o Malookiyat] on the Companions of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] in the name of History.

But I also have these books

1 - A Great Collection of Fabricated Traditions (Arabic: Al-Mawdu’at al-Kubrah) by ibn Al-Jawzi, 2 - Mauzuaat-e-Kabeer by Mulla Ali ibn Sultan al-Qari, 3 - Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer and Da’eef al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, both by Shaykh al-Albaani, 4 - Irwa’ al-Ghaleel fi Takhreej Ahaadeeth Manaar al-Sabeel, also by al-Albaani, 5 - Al-Talkhees al-Habeer fi Takhreej Ahaadeeth al-Raafa’i al-Kabeer, by al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar al-‘Aqsallaani, 6 - Nasab al-Raayah fi Takhreej Ahaadeeth al-Hidaayah by Haafiz al-Zayla’i, 7 - Tuhfat al-Ashraaf bi Ma’rifat al-Atraaf by al-Haafiz al-Mazzi, 8 - Great Indian Scholar Muhammad Tahir Patni books e.g. “Tadhkirrah al-Mawdoo’aat Wal-Dhu’afaahas

through which the Bio-Data and Authenticity of Narrators can be checked e.g Majority of Narrators [untrustworth, liars, fabricators and blasphemer] which Mawdudi have quoted in his so-called Magnum Opus - Khilafat O Malookiyat are as under:

1 - Abu Mikhnaf.

2 - Suddi.

3 - Hisham Kalbi.

4 - Muhammad Bin Hisham Kalbi.

5 - Umer Waqidi.

They have been declared known Liars and Blasphemers in the books above.

2 -

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 5, 2009 @ 11:32 pm

one last question!if the deoband ulema are not good(as you have said in previous posts then why you are emphacising so much on reading their books against molana syed abul aala modudi? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

Because you have been praising Deobandis right or left.

I dont follow anyone rather Quran and Riaz us Salehin and Lulul Al Marjan [Collection of Authentic, Verified and Checked Hadith] and that is enough for me. I have read all the History books mentioned above and if you would go through these books then you may find War [as if the best generation after Prophet Mohammad - PBUH as soon Mohammad died, were at each others throat] e.g. Battle of Jamal, Battle of Siffin and Battle of Neherwan [total death toll is given 2 to 3 Lakhs - For Allahs Sakes, how the hell they collected this detail after 250 years and one of the biggest joke is this that Tabari is directly reporting it by giving a Narration by Abhu Mikhnad, and that too without and linked chain [there is around 50 years of difference between Abu Mikhan’s death and Birth of Tabari.

Comment by zaki on April 5, 2009 @ 11:59 pm

Aamir Mughal,

Dude stop lying. In the above posts you were quoting Deobandi Ulema, how they disapprove Maudoodi. and then you go on and say that nothing is authentic other than Quran and Riaz us Saleheen? So if you don’t think the books by debandi ulema are right then why quote from them? and try other to believe them to be true? or are you just free-riding their critism to your own benefit? May Allah give us the knowledge which is beneficial and not that which is crooked and useless, Ameeen

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 6, 2009 @ 12:02 am

one last question!if the deoband ulema are not good(as you have said in previous posts then why you are emphacising so much on reading their books against molana syed abul aala modudi? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

I also insist you to read Deobandi Scholars on Jinnah:

Minus Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Allama Shabbir Ahmed Usmani every Deobandi, Berlvi, Ahrari, Jamati, Salafi Mullah opposed Pakistan and Jinnah by tooth and nail but later ended up in Pakistan [Marnay Ki liyay]. I have their Fatwas against Jinnah, other Founders of Pakistan and Muslim

Quaid e azam was the greatest leader of the 20th century and right fully owned and proved his title. his religion in not my business. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
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Dear Jawwad Sahab,

Your favourite Deobandi [most of them were in Indian Congress], Barlevis and Mawdudi had the opinion that Jinnah and others who mad Pakistan possible were not ‘Good Muslims’ and in some cases [as per Mullahs], Founders of Pakistan were Kaafirs [sic]

Read..

Ulema and Pakistan Movement

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/secular-republic-or-islamic-republic-of.html

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 6, 2009 @ 12:04 am

Dude stop lying. In the above posts you were quoting Deobandi Ulema, how they disapprove Maudoodi. [Zaki]
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Dear Zaki Sahab,

Read the post above.

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 6, 2009 @ 12:10 am

So if you don’t think the books by debandi ulema are right then why quote from them? and try other to believe them to be true? or are you just free-riding their critism to your own benefit?
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Dear Zaki Sahab,

I had just provided the references of Books by Deobandi Ulemas on Mawdudi to Jawwad Sahab to expose this double standard of Mullahs that one hand they Issue Fatwa against Each other and when Political Need Arises they Form Political Alliance like [Qaumi Ittehad, MMA], they condemn Shias but these Mullahs [Deobandi, Barelvi, Salafis, and Jamat-e-Islami] tolerated Shias when they were after Quadiyani [main hero of 1965 War Major General Akhter Hussain Malik Quadiyani and Pakistan First Foreign Minister was Quadiyani and here goes your two nation theory and Islamic Ideology as well]

Comment by Aamir Mughal on April 6, 2009 @ 12:15 am

So if you don’t think the books by debandi ulema are right then why quote from them? and try other to believe them to be true? or are you just free-riding their critism to your own benefit? [Zaki]
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Dear Zaki Sahab,

How would you define this?

Why this double standard???

Massage centre abductees were from MMA By Shakeel Anjum

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8696

ISLAMABAD: Two of the nine persons kidnapped from a Chinese massage centre in F-8/3 late on the night of June 22 by the local Taliban and who were mysteriously released by the police belonged to the MMA, authoritative sources have told The News.

Seven of those kidnapped were Chinese and their identity was made public while the identity of the two Pakistanis was not disclosed. The sources said that the two Pakistanis were Matiullah Khan and Raqiaz Khan from Bannu. Matiullah Khan, a nephew of the former member of National Assembly, the late Maulana Naseeb Ali Shah, was contesting elections from the seat of his uncle. Raqiaz Khan was his supporter, they added.

The sources said that Matiullah Khan, while recording his statement with the police, said that he was suffering from knee pain and had gone to the massage centre for a massage where he was held.

Male and female students (respectively Taliban and Talibat) of Jamia Faridia, Jamia Hafsa and Beaconhouse School System, in a joint operation, kidnapped Chinese women and Pakistani men shortly after midnight Friday from a Chinese massage center at house 14, Street 4, F-8/3, alleging that they were running a brothel. However, the hostages said they were running a massage centre and beauty parlour.

The Lal Masjid administration later released nine persons after detaining them for 17 hours. The police, the district administration and Lal Masjid identified the Chinese but kept secret the identity of two Pakistanis.

The police, later, freed both the ‘political bigwigs’ keeping their names secret on the direction of the district administration. The sources claimed that the Lal Masjid administration, after knowing about the identity of the kidnapped ‘Pakistanis’ who enjoyed strong political background, facilitated their release. They made it part of the agreement arrived at with the police and the district administration that their identity would be kept a secret.

Meanwhile, President of MMA Qazi Hussain Ahmad, when contacted by this correspondent, said that he didn’t know Matiullah Khan. “It would be better to investigate their involvement and publish whatever is the truth,” he advised.