Jimmy Jumshade wrote:
Aamir Mughal Sahib:
You may notice that after the LAL Masjid massacre, suicie attacks/terrorist attacks greatly increased inPakistan. These are revenge operations.. ......... .....
============ ========= ========= ==
Dear Sir,
I have doubts over that claim because anyone who claims to follow Quran and Sunnah [in letter and spirit] wouldn't do such a thing in the name of Lord. If such attacks are being conducted by the Mullahs as you have claimed above than they are out of Islam, they are Kaafir [Infidels] because revenge doesn't mean that you kill any moving thing wearing Khaki Uniform it defies the basic Islamic Law of Qisas and Deaat. You dont kill Zaid for the deeds done by Bakar. Thats what is happening in Pakistan because when you carry out suicide attacks [violation of Quran and Sunnah] you always kill innocent life as well and thats where a Muslim becomes an Infidel when he/she wrongfully kill an innocent life like happened in many cases particularly in the cases of 18 Oct 2007 Bomb Blast in Karachi, Bomb Blasts in Lahore [5 Children got killed] and in NWFP [when a Funeral Procession was bombed. Even Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to stand up whenever there is a procession in its honour even if the funeral is of a Non Muslim (Bukhari) what to talk of attacking a funeral of Muslim no matter if it is a Funeral of a Polic or Army Officer]
Read as to what Quran says about Revenge.
وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبِّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ
فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ
الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
a- Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not agressors. And slay them whereever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they first attack you (there) then slay them. Such is thereward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then Allah is Forgiving Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But
if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those ward off (evil) {The Cow – II (Soora Al-Baqara) Verse 190, 191, 192, 193, and 194}.
وَإِنْ عَاقَبْتُمْ فَعَاقِبُواْ بِمِثْلِ مَا عُوقِبْتُم بِهِ وَلَئِن صَبَرْتُمْ لَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لِّلصَّابِرينَ
b- If ye punish, then punish with the like of that where-with ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient {The Bee – 26 (Soora Namal) Verse 126}.
وَجَزَاء سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِّثْلُهَا فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ
وَلَمَنِ انتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُوْلَئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِم مِّن سَبِيلٍ
إِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُم عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
c- The guerdon of an ill deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers. And who so defendeth himself after he hath suffered wrong-for such, there is no way (of blame) against them. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress mankind, and wrongfully rebel in the earth. For such there is a painful doom {Counsel – Chapter 42 (Soora Al-Shoora) Verse 40, 41, and 42).
Jumshade Sahab,
In the time of tirbulation and anarchy amongst Muslims, we have been advised by the Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and Salaf Saleheen [May Allah be pleased with all of them] as under
Abdullah Ibn az-Zubayr [May Allah be pleased with him]narrates: My close friend, Abul-Qaasim (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) advised me, “If you reach anything of the tumult (fitnah), go to Uhud and blunt your sword upon it, then remain in your house.” Reported by Ahmad in al-Musnad.
Imaam Al-Barbahaaree Says in his Kitaab Sharh us-Sunnah:
When fitnah occurs, remain in your house When turmoil (fitnah) occurs, remain within your house and flee from the neighbourhood of tumult. Beware of blind following and every case of fighting between Muslims for this world is discord and a trial. Fear Allah, who is alone, having no partner. Do not go out in it, do not fight in it, do not take part in it, do not take sides in it, nor incline towards either (side) and do not have love for any of their affairs, since it is said, “He who loves the deeds of a people, good or bad, is just like the one who commits them.” May Allah grant us and you those things pleasing to Him and keep us away from disobedience to Him.
Al-Khallaal reports, in as-Sunnah that: Abu Bakr related to us, saying, “I heard Abu ‘Abdullah (Imaam Ahmad) ordering that bloodshed be avoided and he strongly forbade rebellion.”
Historical Example [particularly the Khawarijs of Pakistan] for us to learn.
It is also related by Ibn Sa'ad in Tabaqaatul Kubraa A group of Muslims came to al Hasan al Basree (d.110H) seeking a verdict to rebel against al Hajjaaj. So they said, "O Abu Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?" So al Hasan said, "I hold that he should not be fought. If this is the punishment from Allah (Ta'aala), then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allah (Ta'aala), then be patient until Allah's Judgement comes, and He is the best of Judges."
So they left Al Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al Hajjaaj - so al Hajjaaj killed them all. Hajjaaj wasath Thaqafee, and is well known. Adh Dhahabee said in Siyar A'lamin Nubalaa at the end of his biography, "We revile him and do not love him,rather we hate him for Allah (Ta'aala). He had some good deeds, but they are drowned in the ocean of his sins, and his affair is for Allah!"
About them al Hasan used to say, "If the people had patience, when they were being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allah (Ta'aala) will give them a way out. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left to their swords. By Allah! Not even for a single day did they bring about any good."It is related by Ibn Sa’d in at-Tabaqaat, and by Ibn Abee Haatim in his Tafseer.
Aamir Mughal Sahib:
You may notice that after the LAL Masjid massacre, suicie attacks/terrorist attacks greatly increased inPakistan. These are revenge operations.. ......... .....
============ ========= ========= ==
Dear Sir,
I have doubts over that claim because anyone who claims to follow Quran and Sunnah [in letter and spirit] wouldn't do such a thing in the name of Lord. If such attacks are being conducted by the Mullahs as you have claimed above than they are out of Islam, they are Kaafir [Infidels] because revenge doesn't mean that you kill any moving thing wearing Khaki Uniform it defies the basic Islamic Law of Qisas and Deaat. You dont kill Zaid for the deeds done by Bakar. Thats what is happening in Pakistan because when you carry out suicide attacks [violation of Quran and Sunnah] you always kill innocent life as well and thats where a Muslim becomes an Infidel when he/she wrongfully kill an innocent life like happened in many cases particularly in the cases of 18 Oct 2007 Bomb Blast in Karachi, Bomb Blasts in Lahore [5 Children got killed] and in NWFP [when a Funeral Procession was bombed. Even Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to stand up whenever there is a procession in its honour even if the funeral is of a Non Muslim (Bukhari) what to talk of attacking a funeral of Muslim no matter if it is a Funeral of a Polic or Army Officer]
Read as to what Quran says about Revenge.
وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبِّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ
فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ
الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
a- Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not agressors. And slay them whereever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they first attack you (there) then slay them. Such is thereward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then Allah is Forgiving Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But
if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those ward off (evil) {The Cow – II (Soora Al-Baqara) Verse 190, 191, 192, 193, and 194}.
وَإِنْ عَاقَبْتُمْ فَعَاقِبُواْ بِمِثْلِ مَا عُوقِبْتُم بِهِ وَلَئِن صَبَرْتُمْ لَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لِّلصَّابِرينَ
b- If ye punish, then punish with the like of that where-with ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient {The Bee – 26 (Soora Namal) Verse 126}.
وَجَزَاء سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِّثْلُهَا فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ
وَلَمَنِ انتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُوْلَئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِم مِّن سَبِيلٍ
إِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُم عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
c- The guerdon of an ill deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers. And who so defendeth himself after he hath suffered wrong-for such, there is no way (of blame) against them. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress mankind, and wrongfully rebel in the earth. For such there is a painful doom {Counsel – Chapter 42 (Soora Al-Shoora) Verse 40, 41, and 42).
Jumshade Sahab,
In the time of tirbulation and anarchy amongst Muslims, we have been advised by the Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and Salaf Saleheen [May Allah be pleased with all of them] as under
Abdullah Ibn az-Zubayr [May Allah be pleased with him]narrates: My close friend, Abul-Qaasim (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) advised me, “If you reach anything of the tumult (fitnah), go to Uhud and blunt your sword upon it, then remain in your house.” Reported by Ahmad in al-Musnad.
Imaam Al-Barbahaaree Says in his Kitaab Sharh us-Sunnah:
When fitnah occurs, remain in your house When turmoil (fitnah) occurs, remain within your house and flee from the neighbourhood of tumult. Beware of blind following and every case of fighting between Muslims for this world is discord and a trial. Fear Allah, who is alone, having no partner. Do not go out in it, do not fight in it, do not take part in it, do not take sides in it, nor incline towards either (side) and do not have love for any of their affairs, since it is said, “He who loves the deeds of a people, good or bad, is just like the one who commits them.” May Allah grant us and you those things pleasing to Him and keep us away from disobedience to Him.
Al-Khallaal reports, in as-Sunnah that: Abu Bakr related to us, saying, “I heard Abu ‘Abdullah (Imaam Ahmad) ordering that bloodshed be avoided and he strongly forbade rebellion.”
Historical Example [particularly the Khawarijs of Pakistan] for us to learn.
It is also related by Ibn Sa'ad in Tabaqaatul Kubraa A group of Muslims came to al Hasan al Basree (d.110H) seeking a verdict to rebel against al Hajjaaj. So they said, "O Abu Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?" So al Hasan said, "I hold that he should not be fought. If this is the punishment from Allah (Ta'aala), then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allah (Ta'aala), then be patient until Allah's Judgement comes, and He is the best of Judges."
So they left Al Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al Hajjaaj - so al Hajjaaj killed them all. Hajjaaj wasath Thaqafee, and is well known. Adh Dhahabee said in Siyar A'lamin Nubalaa at the end of his biography, "We revile him and do not love him,rather we hate him for Allah (Ta'aala). He had some good deeds, but they are drowned in the ocean of his sins, and his affair is for Allah!"
About them al Hasan used to say, "If the people had patience, when they were being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allah (Ta'aala) will give them a way out. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left to their swords. By Allah! Not even for a single day did they bring about any good."It is related by Ibn Sa’d in at-Tabaqaat, and by Ibn Abee Haatim in his Tafseer.
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