Friday, November 7, 2008

World Bank E Conference on Afghanistan [2001] - 6

Mon Nov 26 2001 - 15:55:53 EST

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Dear Kausar:

What community? My community or yours? Could we be a part of a community like a virtual one on the Internet? I think so, as I think there are people that are interested in the topic, the questions and perhaps have answers or at least are attempting to provide the answers to a few questions. Perhaps the World is made up of many communities, but some common denominator exists in humanity. What do you think?

Best regards,

Sidney Clouston

Mon Nov 26 2001 - 13:40:18 EST

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Dear Fellows and Friends:

If Dairy cows would be able to eat the poppies, I would have a plan to do a proposal to the UN Energy Trust. The people would get a land of milk and honey. The UN would get much lower greenhouse gases. Anyone in Pakistan or Afghanistan want to collaborate?


Clouston Energy Research

Sidney Clouston

SORKHUD, Afghanistan--Gul Haidar smiled as he sifted some seeds through his fingers, happy he had planted the one crop that should ensure his family's welfare next year -- opium poppies. In pencil-thin, spiraling furrows dug with a homemade plow pulled by oxen, Haidar has sown the tiny, pale specks that will yield flowers in four months. When the petals fall, buyers will come for the seed pods and its opium resin...

Diana Cook

Mon Nov 26 2001 - 17:46:06 EST
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The success of any solution will depend on its fundamental simplicity. We humans tend to overcomplicate things with our worldly "wisdom". I guess that comes from Adam and Eve tasting the forbidden fruit in the quest to be wise. We now have free will...freedom to chose between what is right and what is wrong. Hmmm, which shall we choose?

1. Any action taken to rebuild must not be motivated by a quest for personal power or glory - no intent to "control" any aspect. Control is a myth that is in the minds of those that don't believe in a higher power than themselves.

2. Reconstruction needs to be motivated by one purpose only - help those less fortunate than ourselves to give them HOPE for a future. "What you do to the least of these little ones, you do to me" said God through his only son, Jesus.

3. We need to clear the land of all the bad so that we can plant that which will flourish.

4. We need to begin with the building of roads, the arteries that help the blood flow from the heart to the rest of the body. This will bring businesses and jobs to the area. Farming needs to be reinstituted with crops other than Opium. God forbid that we have another explosion of heroine in the world. We already have enough foolish people and death to contend with.

5. We need to build safe, affordable housing for the people. A safe, decent place to live builds HOPE which is like an eternal stream of living water. When one has HOPE, life is worth living. HOPE is a catalyst for change. Apartment housing seems the most realistic to me at this point. Affordable, multi-family housing and banking (commercial and real estate lending) are my expertise. See for examples of what we build here in Florida.

6. We need to generate businesses by providing micro-loan programs for citizens to start their own businesses. The example in Bangladesh is perfect. Once people have a place to live, they will need appliances, clothing, food, basic supplies, educational supplies. etc., which is were small businesses come into the picture. Once the area is stabilized and the people's basic HUMAN needs are met, companies will be more willing to set-up plants to employ the Afghanistan people.

7. We need to continue to offer technical, professional and educational expertise to the region so that it will FLOURISH, and not fail this time. even is a biblically significant number so, I will stop here. Hope this helps the discussion :-) (-: SMILE GOD LOVES YOU!
--- Diana Cook---

Mark McKenna

Tue Nov 27 2001 - 09:32:05 EST

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Dear Participants --

I hope that we can bring into clearer focus what is new in the present equation. Over the past twenty years much has gone amiss in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and present circumstances are only partly of their own making. But if we devote ourselves to looking for the mote in one another's eye, are we more likely to discover the new possibilities for the future, or to reproduce the past? ne aspect of the present situation that is new is the attention of the international community -- CNN, SkyNews and the BBC are broadcasting daily from Kabul, Kandahar and Islamabad. This attention and the resources it can bring ought be used to finance the reconstruction of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The world's attention, however, will soon shift elsewhere. If Afghans and Pakistanis do not seize this opportunity to determine their own fate, who will determine it for them, and what will that fate become?

Archimedes declared nearly 2500 years ago that given a long enough lever, a fulcrum and a place to stand, he could move the world. It seems to me that the events since September 11th have provided Afghans and Pakistanis with a fulcrum, and the expected international assistance may yet provide them with a long enough lever, but are they prepared to stand where they must stand in order to move their world?

There are some who would like to see in current events the possibility of a radical shift in the historical trajectory of these close neighbors. I wonder if such a shift has actually occurred, or if these events are just one more point on an existing, downward trending line. If you feel that there is some hope to be had in present circumstances, where is it and how can it best be realized?

Best wishes,

Mark Reade McKenna


aamir moghal

Tue Nov 27 2001 - 19:36:34 EST

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Dear and Respected Readers,
I would take the opportunity to post these links for the readers interest, If I may please be allowed.

US has no proof to get Osama convicted: Chomsky

US, UK abusing power in 'war', says Chomsky.

The Pentagon Papers and U.S. Imperialism in South East Asia:

Noam Chomsky on Anarchism, Marxism & Hope for the Future:

On the Bombings of 11 SEPT, Noam Chomsky:

Prospects for Peace in the Middle East Noam Chomsky




Tue Nov 27 2001 - 13:16:10 EST
• Next message: Athar Osama: "[pak-afg] A Very Interesting Perspective on Afghan Situation"

Previous message: Nabi Aslamy: "[pak-afg] Re: pak-afg digest: November 24, 2001"

Mark McKenna's ideas ring very familiar with other post-crisis situations I am familiar with. Among them, is the Civil Unrest in Los Angeles in 1992. This may seem a remote comparison, but hear me out. I was active in and subsequently conducted research on community organizations and their response to the crisis. The most important finding, and one which I have tried to raise wherever appropriate, is that in such post-crisis situations such organizations and actors have a very unique, but short-term advantage. The many potential donors and formal institutions become dependent on these seemingly smaller, sometimes less professional, and "weaker" entities. Donors and formal institutions do not, especially in the short term, have the ability to fully understand the crisis and directly address the needs. They may have money to throw but have no mechanisms to make it count. Community organizations and other actors on the ground are in a unique position to make effective use of such resources. This is further buttressed by the fact that in the immediate aftermath of crisis there are typically many external actors who are interested and want or need to help.

The lesson is this: community organizations, civil society, and other actors on the ground in Afghanistan (including, by the way, those participating in the discussions regarding a coalition government) are in an important, but short term power position. Now is when they need to negotiate terms that will have longer term consequences for responsiveness, equity and representativeness, self-determination, and sovereignty. So, you ask Mark, is there a window of opportunity here? Definitely yes.


Jennifer Brinkerhoff

Athar Osama

Mon Nov 26 2001 - 14:41:43 EST
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Have a look at this website:


Athar Osama
RGS Doctoral Fellow
RAND Graduate School for Policy Analysis

Afghan Youth Org

Mon Nov 26 2001 - 19:10:32 EST
• Next message: Qaim Shah: "[pak-afg] Re: Reconstruction/rebuilding of Afghanistan"

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Dear Respected members,

Throughout history the people of Afghanistan are called and known as Afghans. The currency of Afghanistan is called Afghani. Please make corrections next time you refer to the people of Afghanistan.

Thank you,
AYO Executive

~ Afghan Youth for Afghanistan ~

Afghan Youth Organization (AYO)

Tue Nov 27 2001 - 17:05:37 EST
• Next message: b r: "[pak-afg] "Degeneration of Institutions in Afghanistan""
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Newspapers today say that US is beginning the endgame in Afghanistan. So, basically the crisis is about to end, the Taliban has been overthrown and the terrorist organization will be dismantled, sooner rather than later. The opportunity for Afghanistan (and to some extent, for Pakistan) may be starting to slide away.

Afghanistan and Pakistan have no choice but stay together. Neither of them can move to a different neighborhood, so the smart choice is to undertake together the task of rebuilding their countries and tackle their poverty and underdevelopment problems. Nevertheless, it is clear that the enterprise of development in this case needs a lot of support (and oversight) from the international community. The current crisis has had global consquences, so it is the business of the international community to make sure it will not come again.

Sovereignty at this point of history is almost meaningless, or at least is relative. Today, while the governments cannot allege sovereignty arguments to keep unpopular, unsound or discriminatory policies at home (i.e. the situation of women in Afghanistan), because the international community condemn such policies, participation of local communities in the policymaking is also an imperative.
Francisco J. Coy

b r

Wed Nov 28 2001 - 05:38:28 EST
• Next message: Dr. Naila Azhar: "[pak-afg] Traditional Local Institutions and Women Participation in Pakistan

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Dear all,

Afghanistan has lost something essential. It has lost the representation of women, at any level.
Men were happy because they could cut their beard, and listen music. But no one was happy because women were free Afghanistan has lost the habit of thinking about women.

It has lost the most important of its institutions. Unless it regains them, development will never occur. Because development is linked with women. Development is a long term enterprise, it's not only a matter of money, of GNP, GDP Children must be educated, healthy, nourished, for the
development occured. Even if you think in term of GDP, there is no way out of it.

And no study has made the fact that women play the biggest part in children's care wrong. Any investment for children need an investment in their mother's knowledge and bargaining power.
( I could provide a number of reference like:

BEHRMAN, FOSTER, ROSENZWEIG, VASHISHTHA: "women's schooling, home teaching, and economic growth"- Journal of political economy, vol 107, n4, august 1999

GLEWWE: "Why does women schooling raise child health in developing countries?"- The journal of human resources,vol 34, n1, winter 1999 And so on)So I'm sure that Afghanistan has lost the most important of its institutions. Please, think and speak of it

ROCCHIA Benjamin
Student in DEA development economics
University of Bordeaux IV-Montesquieu
Dr. Naila Azhar

Wed Nov 28 2001 - 00:53:58 EST
• Next message: aamir moghal: "[pak-afg] Re: Topic 2 -- Summary and more questions"

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Respected Readers

All these local level traditional institutions might have some strengths and definitely would have made some positive contributions as well. But one major associated constraint, is the lack of women representation in all these traditional institutions Jirga, Panchayat etc etc .

In addition, it is my impression that these tend to be dominated by local influential, big landlords and a common man is neither is neither represented nor has a say in the decision making process.If we are talking about social justice, gender equity, basic democracy and positive change/development , will they be able to deliver ? Just a thought

Naila Azhar

aamir moghal

Tue Nov 27 2001 - 21:22:20 EST
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Respected Mr. Mark McKenna and fellow Readers,

Some of my humble comment (do guide me If I am wrong).

Sir, only the goodness of intentions can solve the crisis but easier said than done. I wont say that good intentions are extinct but it is hard to find nowadays.

Answers to Mr Mckenna's further questions:

1-Answer: Sad events of 11 September and US's campaign of Bombing the Dead (Afghans) has drowned the "Strategic Depths" of some super brains in Pakistani Establishment.

2- Answer: Islamic Militants or Religious Parties have never got the Confidence or Vote of the people of this country in its checkered history of 53 year, I mean whenever General Elections took place in Pakistan (seldom thanks US support to Pakistani Dictators). These parties exploit Religion for ulterior motives as you all know that Relgion is a sensitive issue and people rarely challenge the irrational approach of these parties and one the biggest reason is that Pakistanis or many other Muslim nations around the world carried away easily because their lack of knowledge in Religion which is hijacked by the Clerics. The responsible for this is Liberal and Educated class who should come forward and free the religion from the "occupation of theocracy. If the Economic Crisis in Pakistan and Peace in Afghanistan are not achieved than these Extremists can exploit the situation terming the present setup as failure thereby exploiting the mass through religious rhetoric to topple the Govt.

3- Answer: The donor agencies instead of providing "DOLLARS" to the Mandarins should provide Technology to Pakistan in Banking, Textile, Health, Education, Computers, Tele-Comunications, Shipping, Finance Sector, Hydro Power, Latest Agricutural Machinery and above all writing off the loans which would indirectly benefit the comon citizens. Another thing is to provide market access to Honest and Reputed Pakistani Businessmen in Textile, Rice, Cotton, Garments, Fruits, and Seafood in the Western World. Efforts should also be made by the donor agencies to make both India and Pakistan for enhancing the Trade Relations between Pakistan and India. Trade relations between the two countries would enhance the amity and decrease the Tension on several issues.

4- Answer: The Afghan Government should be free of any outside control of any country but Iran, China, Central Asian States, Russia, and Pakistan as well as India should help the Afghans in Rebuilding the Afghanistan. No offence to those readers who criticize Pakistan for Afghan Mess but Pakistan and Iran cannot be de-linked from Afghanistan due to the 4 Million Afghan refugees in Pakistanand Iran altogether. The Afghan government should themselve decide as to who would be Mediator to monitor the fragile process of Peace and Rebuilding and de-weaponization and sweeping of Anti Personnel Mines from Afghanistan. In my view Scandinavian countries with the help of Afghan Tribal Chiefs, Clerics and representatives from each segment of Afghan society should form a comittee to watch the emerging of True Afghan National Govt.

5- Answer: The true Afghan Leadership would emerge through "LOYA JIRGA" or whatever process Afghans would like to elect their "Father Figure".

6- Answer: Afghans like freedom, self respect and what they need now is food, medicines, clothing and above all Sympathy and Goodintentions from others provided these they would be fine businessmen and rulers. And whoever provide them PEACE would be the consensus leader.

7- Answer: The most crucial help which Afghans need is the help of Wealthy, Educated and enlightened Afghans who are living abroad. The best thing these abroad settled Afghans can do to get unite as Afghans and forget that what they are, (Pashtoons, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Sunnis, Shias) if they are serious to fulfill the obligation and duty towards their unfortunate poor countrymen. Otherwise history wouldnot forgive those Afghans who are abroad and can do something for the Afghans.

8- Answer: Ordinary Aghans can play their part if their tribal chief would represent the tribe through Centuries Old Afghan Code of Conduct without foreign involvement.

9- Answer: International Interests or vested interests (to be precise) should be put in pending for the sake of Afghan people. Enough is enough.Regards

Muhammad Aamir Mughal

Wed Nov 28 2001 - 11:22:40 EST
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Dear friends,

While a lot of friends have been rather prescriptive, I would request my Afghan friends participating in the discussions to reflect upon the existing grassroots institutions in their country. I am not sure how many of them have a first hand experience of the country though. Since we, right across the durand line, share a similar ethnic background, I know that there are indigenous local, meso-level as well as broader level institutions in place (albeit weakened as a result of technological change, intervention of state and militarisation) which have been working for ages to ensure governance of the society.

I am sure that with this strength, coupled with a cross-fertilisation of North-South knowledge about development, the country can prosper. In my opinion, there are at least two pre-conditions for that. Firstly, there should be a complete embargo on supply of arms and ammunition to all the groups in Afghanistan. Secondly, the international civil society should exert its pressure to ensure that neo-colonial agendas are not allowed to play their nefarious game in the garb of "development".

Regarding the role of Pakistan in the recent history, I would humbly request the participants not to generalise "Pakistan" as a monolith. The people who sent military advisors and ammunition to Afghanistan are as much representatives of people of Pakistan as Mullah Omar and the likes are of Afghan people. These very same power mongers have mercilessly used their tanks and guns against their own Pakistani population time and again. There are many Pakistanis who publicly decried the interference in Afghanistan and suffered for their dissenting views.

Whether we like it or not, Pakistan and Afghanistan share a geography, language, culture, history and religion. It is not physically possible for the two nations to remain aloof of eachother. Now the choice lies again with international community. Would they like a militarised state or a truly democratic one in Pakistan. In either case, there will be spill overs into Afghanistan. I suggest that the Pakistan problem is an integral part of Afghan problem.

I again humbly request my Pakistani brethren in this group not to indulge into romanticising the "Islamic" love which made Pakistanis accommodate their refugee brethren. I, as a first hand witness of the process, can testify that it was the political will of the Pakistani military dictators and international aid which not only "invited" the refugee influx, but also prevented their voluntary repatriation on many occassions during Najib's era. Definitely, we suffered in the form of drugs, Klashnikov culture, environmental degradation etc., but the worst form of price we paid was the endurance of a tyrannical military dictator (supported by the international community) who destroyed our established institutions.

Usman Qazi,
Development Economist,

Wed Nov 28 2001 - 13:25:06 EST
• Next message: aamir moghal: "[pak-afg] Moderators Observation"
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Dear Fellows and Friends:

I would like to share a good information resource. Please notice the Dairy link. Consider the UN list that has the Pakistani request for a joint venture for a Dairy. And the use of biomass or biogas. Perhaps some Afghanistani Farmer would trade poppies for "poopies". Just a jest! The fact is that the Cows give food, good protein at about 9 grams per cup. The manure can provide energy for pumping water and powering Internet computer delivered college class credits. So can solar, but the solar can spare the use of methane or the hydrogen that can be used in the night and on the road. More on this later.

It just takes a community we're told by and I think that is an accurate statement.

Best regards,

Sidney Clouston

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The Biobased Products and Bioenergy Initiative publishes a monthly electronic newsletter on bioenergy topics. Click here to access the November 2001 issue, and to check out their archives,

"Developing Bioenergy in the Southeast," by the Southern States Energy Board, DOE Southeastern Regional Biomass Energy Program. Online in PDF format (Adobe Acrobat required) at

"Outlook for Biomass Ethanol Production and Demand," by Joseph DiPardo. Online report from DOE's Energy Information Administration, at


Presentation papers for the Tenth Biennial Bioenergy Conference "Bioenergy for the Environment" are due February 1, 2002. A proposal form is online (in PDF format) at

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"The Small Dairy Resource Book," by Vicki H. Dunaway. Online information sources for farmstead producers and processors. In PDF format (Adobe Acrobat required). At


"Emissions and Reduction of Greenhouse Gases from Agriculture and Food Manufacturing," available in PDF format (Adobe Acrobat required), from DOE's Agriculture Industry of the Future Team, at


View a progress evaluation report on the Scientific Irrigation Scheduling (SIS), a program funded by the Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. In PDF format (Adobe Acrobat required), at

and scroll down.


"Harvesting the Wind," by staff. Fact sheet on farming wind energy, from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. At


"How to Find Agricultural Information on the Internet," by Mark Campidonica, at the University of California Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program. A percentage of the publication is available to view online at

You can find purchase information for the complete document under Ordering Information.


"Preparing an Odor Management Plan," by David Schmidt, Larry Jacobson, and Kevin Janni. Factsheet from the University of Minnesoty Extension Service, at h

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Klaus-Peter Rosemann

Wed Nov 28 2001 - 15:44:00 EST

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FROM: Klaus -Peter Rosemann

Dear Participants,


The Contribution of ROCCHIA Benjamin is of dramatic importance and while Blaise Pascal did not refer to GENDER, NASA and the Pentagon have imperical proof of the fact that women, they checked it in context with OUTERSPACE CAPABILITIES of either sex, are the more potent ( even though "WEAK") and more capable !

Blaise Pascal phrased it this way in "Thoughts on Mind and on Style":"There are then two kinds of intellect; the one able to penetrate acutely and deeply into the conclusions of given premises, and this is the precise intellect; the other able to comprehend a great number of premises without
confusing them, and this is the mathematical intellect. The one has force and exactness, the other comprehension. Now the one quality can exist without the other; the intellect can be strong and narrow, and can also be comprehensive and weak."

Now it should be obvious that the "strong and narrow" is the male type and the "comprehensive and weak" is the female type.

And Pascal goes on to say in a further thought:

"Those who are accustomed to judge by feeling do not understand the process of reasoning, for they would understand at first sight, and are not used to seek for principles. And others, on the contrary, who are accustomed to reason from principles, do not at all understand matters of feeling, seeking principles, and being unable to see at a glance."

Again you have here the difference between male and female and may understand that the combination of both is the ultimate.It is therefore mandatory to bring the women into a position in relation to men and society, as requested in the contribution, that has mankind benefit from both sexes and the synergies male and female produce together and here the role of the women regarding the children is so obvious again that to refuse the women the proper respect can be considered a criminal act directed against all of humanity and looking at it from a mans point of view a destructive disposition towards oneself.


Klaus - Peter Rosemann


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